[QUOTE=David Jamieson;929672]Do you think that that statement is true?
In a broad scope, I would say it is not true. In a very narrow, extremely narrow scope, it is somewhat true. In my opinion and experience, which is by no means vast. :)[/QUOTE]
I dont understand you comment. Please elaborate more.
Hi Henrik,
Make sure you take a look at page 1 of the thread before you jump in as I still haven’t seen any evidence that you understand my argument. The fortune cookies get annoying. I don’t think you are in a position to be educating many of the people on this thread. There are some very long time players here.
Furthermore, analogous comparisions can be made between any of the southern styles alhthoug, IMO, the Hakka styles do seem to have something fairly unique or at least, unique to Hakka styles. For example, superficially, Southern Mantis looks more like WC than Hung Gar does but in terms of flavour and shen-fa and jin-fa, it really seems different to me. Same thing for Dragon which I have taken a couple classes in. The extreme emphasis on the bow stance and it’s use pretty much only as a way of keeping the weapons up front is very different from Hung Gar’s use of a bow mainly as an evasive maneuver (punching up the sleeve) or by alternating between bow and horse for punching like they do in Choi Li Fut. I also didn’t see much of the typical tan, pak, lop stuff in the Dragon I was exposed to.
Hi Henrik,
Make sure you take a look at page 1 of the thread before you jump in as I still haven’t seen any evidence that you understand my argument.
I am not interested in argue. wasting of time, argument doesnt change reality.
The fortune cookies get annoying. I don’t think you are in a position to be educating many of the people on this thread.
There are some very long time players here.
ARe you a Chinese or are you a Westerner? where is this Pulling ranking/ seniority to step on other’s behavior comes from? I used to see these type of practice in the 70’s Hongkong shaw’s brother Kung Fu movies. hahaha
you must be watching those movies while I am listerning to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyhMc6kW5aE
In WCK, our saying is " learning has no senior or junior, those who master the art is the teacher."
Obviously, you have not learn this free will WCK concept , even with all your claim how long you have known WCK, isnt it?
Big claim but by whose standard? yours?
- Hung Gar contains most of the Wing Chun curriculum but not vice-versa.
How deep is your Hung Gar/Wing Chun kungfu? how high is your Hung Gar/Wing Chun ranking in the family tree to make these type of claim?
Sure, your personal view. why not?
For example, superficially, Southern Mantis looks more like WC than Hung Gar does but in terms of flavour and shen-fa and jin-fa, it really seems different to me.
your personal view, why not? is it reality? if it is it is. if it is not then it is not.
I have a question for the expert in Hung Gar. Is all the sifus in the following Youtube clip good in what they are practiced? high standard Hung Gar?
How deep is your Hung Gar/Wing Chun kungfu? how high is your Hung Gar/Wing Chun ranking in the family tree to make these type of claim?
I actually already answered these questions for you. Several times in fact. Now, how about you answer them yourself.
The similarities I have observed have already been agreed upon by most of the people here who have the prerequisite experience. Since you are agruing against the prevailing view, the burden of “proof” is yours.
of course those styles are similar they come from the same province
I actually already answered these questions for you. Several times in fact.
In case you dont understand.
I am asking for your rank in the family trees and depth of kung fu both in Hung Gar and Wing Chun. Very specific.
The similarities I have observed have already been agreed upon by most of the people here who have the prerequisite experience.
does your personal observation and agreed upon among some mean it is the fact?
Galileo got attackes by the Church authorities who observe and agree upon otherwise so what? the cosmos behave as it is.
Since you are agruing against the prevailing view, the burden of “proof” is yours.
Burden? Proof?
I am just having fun watching your fantasy soap opera.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;929710]In case you dont understand.
I am asking for your rank in the family trees and depth of kung fu both in Hung Gar and Wing Chun. Very specific. [/quote]
I have given out more information about my background than you have so you can stick your rank up your arse. There’s a reason why it’s called “rank”. It’s means that it stinks. 
does your personal observation and agreed upon among some mean it is the fact?
No more than yours does. But since you are only willing to issue proclamations and have never actually named specifics, you are really not in a position to be aruging this point either. At least I provided very specific examples of the overlap and what’s more, experienced practictioners of the style agree with my descriptions of what they do. This is something you have not yet proven yourself capable of. You only fight with straw men. In order to have a rational debate you must first manage to at least roughly paraphrase the opposing point of view in a way that those who hold that point of view can agree on.
Burden? Proof?
Go look it up. If you weren’t so arrogant I’d be more amenible to helping you out with your English but you are so I’m not.
serious question, is he “arrogant” or maybe his command of English is a little off?
I asked him that on the last thread. I asked if he was an ESL learner and he just responded with more fortune cookies. Stuff like his consistent mis-use of plural vs. singular nouns smells like native Chinese speaker to me but if he has a hard time understanding a point then rather than condescending he should explain that he can’t quite understand and ask for clarification.
I have given out more information about my background than you have so you can stick your rank up your arse. There’s a reason why it’s called “rank”. It’s means that it stinks.
oh, your back ground very impressive.
Rank is a different story though, rank is where were you located say under Wong Fei-Hung or Iron bridge three’s family tree and who certified you. Otherwise, who knows if you learn a legitimate stuffs?
Usual TCMA right?
But since you are only willing to issue proclamations and have never actually named specifics, you are really not in a position to be aruging this point either.
At least I provided very specific examples of the overlap and what’s more, experienced practictioners of the style agree with my descriptions of what they do.
To many you you me me, argue…, it is all ego isnt it?
Ok, you want to be know it all?
sure, feel free.
This is something you have not yet proven yourself capable of. You only fight with straw men.
I am here to enjoy your ideas, not spending time to prove anything.
In order to have a rational debate you must first manage to at least roughly paraphrase the opposing point of view in a way that those who hold that point of view can agree on.
Debate is wasting too much energy.
Since you know it all, why dont you advise us on
1, what is the advance attainment in Hung gar Iron Wire Set training?
2, What is the advance attainment in Wing Chun SLT set training?
Your professional input is highly appreciate!
I certainly can learn from you.
Hendrik, I learned my gung fu from my father. I had 5 brothers and 2 sisters, all gung fu fighters. My father and 2 oldest brothers were my teachers. I have no idea of lineage, but know that it was widely taught in the Chinese Imperial Army before 1900. He called it Hung Fa, and at times Wing Chun. He told me that it came from a man by the name of Hung. I have no Hung Fa belt rankings. I can not do the knives or the pole, but my gung fu is strong. I do have 4 degrees of black belt in traditional Japanese Jujitsu.
Being Chinese and from what I have picked up from elders, Chinese history is just loaded with fable and myth. What they do not know they make up. I have seen it first hand.
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;929720]Hendrik, I learned my gung fu from my father. I had 5 brothers and 2 sisters, all gung fu fighters. My father and 2 oldest brothers were my teachers. I have no idea of lineage, but know that it was widely taught in the Chinese Imperial Army before 1900. He called it Hung Fa, and at times Wing Chun. He told me that it came from a man by the name of Hung. I have no Hung Fa belt rankings. I can not do the knives or the pole, but my gung fu is strong. I do have 4 degrees of black belt in traditional Japanese Jujitsu.
Being Chinese and from what I have picked up from elders, Chinese history is just loaded with fable and myth. What they do not know they make up. I have seen it first hand.[/QUOTE]
Lee,
Thank you and appreciate for your sharing.
Do you do Siu Lin Tao as in WCK? Please share more about this style and also your father’s history that is very interesting. Which part of china you original from?
Chinese ranges from +100 to -100. In the history of China, there are those who will do anything just to cover up for themself. Such as those sell fake medicine.
There also those who will die to tell the truth.
Such as the Historian Sze Ma Cian who dont buy the emperor’s brute force torture and im prison and continous to write the truth.
Best Regards
Hendrik
I’ve never practiced Wing Chun so I can’t really comment on it, but I have practiced Hung Gar and Choy Lay Fut (and learned Choy Lay Fut from a Hung Gar practitioner!). Even though Hung Gar has longer range techniques (supposedly inherited from Lama Pai) I can tell you that they are not executed as “long” as in CLF. I realized this when I started taking CLF from a CLF specialist. CLF is supposed to be executed really long and loose.
In addition, according to my old sifu, CLF was originally designed to fight against short range Southern styles like Hung Gar. This explains the long techniques and the angular footwork. Based on my experience, the strategy in Hung Gar is very direct with footwork that follows a more or less straight line. CLF is the opposite, always stepping off the opponents “line” and trying to throw a haymaker from an off angle…nothing direct about it.
It’s interesting to see how martial arts evolve. One style or strategy becomes popular so another style develops to counter it…and on…and on…and on…
EO
Lee Chiang Po
I wonder if your Hung Fa Wing Chun is related to Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun there founder was Hung Gun Biu maybe your founder named Hung is the same person . What does your Wing Chun look like such as Yip Man , Yuen Kay San or Pan Nam Wing Chun what would you say it is close to ?
You guys have to understand that Hendrik speeks about 4 languages . Although Hendrick is a difficult person to understand or get information from .
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;929717]serious question, is he “arrogant” or maybe his command of English is a little off?[/QUOTE]
There is a big different between these right?
[QUOTE=Eric Olson;929730]I’ve never practiced Wing Chun so I can’t really comment on it, but I have practiced Hung Gar and Choy Lay Fut (and learned Choy Lay Fut from a Hung Gar practitioner!). Even though Hung Gar has longer range techniques (supposedly inherited from Lama Pai) I can tell you that they are not executed as “long” as in CLF. I realized this when I started taking CLF from a CLF specialist. CLF is supposed to be executed really long and loose.
In addition, according to my old sifu, CLF was originally designed to fight against short range Southern styles like Hung Gar. This explains the long techniques and the angular footwork. Based on my experience, the strategy in Hung Gar is very direct with footwork that follows a more or less straight line. CLF is the opposite, always stepping off the opponents “line” and trying to throw a haymaker from an off angle…nothing direct about it.
It’s interesting to see how martial arts evolve. One style or strategy becomes popular so another style develops to counter it…and on…and on…and on…
EO[/QUOTE]
1,
Exactly, the key word is “specialist”.
In Chinese, it is said, " the specialist wave his hand, the other specialist will know is it or is it not."
2, you have made an excellent point of the CLF and Hung Gar.
As for WCK, the Kuen Kuit said " Using get away from the opponents’ path as entering, thus, short technics broken the long technics "
A different way…
[QUOTE=Firehawk4;929759] Although Hendrick is a difficult person to understand or get information from .[/QUOTE]
That depend on who and how they communicate with me.
[QUOTE=omarthefish;929718]I asked him that on the last thread. I asked if he was an ESL learner and he just responded with more fortune cookies. Stuff like his consistent mis-use of plural vs. singular nouns smells like native Chinese speaker to me but if he has a hard time understanding a point then rather than condescending he should explain that he can’t quite understand and ask for clarification.[/QUOTE]
It reads like fake Chinglish - e.g. purposely misspelled words, incorrect grammar, etc. just to make himself sound more “Chinese.” :rolleyes: