[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1104188]You missed my point. My point was that people with those same beliefs are now often called racists, even though race has zero to do with those policies.[/QUOTE]Are they? Examples?
And the community organizer did not preach hate and racism, nor did I claim he did. It was preached at the ‘church’ he attended for 20+ years.
He is not the church, just as you separate Romney from the questionable Mormon practices.
[QUOTE=CFT;1104233]Are they? Examples?[/QUOTE]
Dude, IVE been called a racist for supporting said policies. And I dare you to find any post of mine that shows me spewing racism.
[QUOTE=CFT;1104233]He is not the church, just as you separate Romney from the questionable Mormon practices.[/QUOTE]
No, I did not say ANY of that.
What I said was I’d rather have a Mormon as President than a guy who goes to a church that spews hate and racism.
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1104306]What I said was I’d rather have a Mormon as President than a guy who goes to a church that spews hate and racism.[/QUOTE] Really???
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1104320]Really???[/QUOTE]
Do what?!?!
I simply restated what I said since it was misstated/changed/altered etc. I didn’t even mention Pat Robertson so why in the world are you bringing him into the discussion??? :rolleyes:
Because MK considers him an example of your church going leader, who has in the past stated some questionable remarks that many consider to be racist. His point being that going to church does not make for a good president.
Remember, church is full of sinners. How many douche bag politicians, who all claim to believe in the sanctity of marriage and are avid church goers, end up getting caught in scandals?
[QUOTE=Hebrew Hammer;1104346]Because MK considers him an example of your church going leader, who has in the past stated some questionable remarks that many consider to be racist. His point being that going to church does not make for a good president.
Remember, church is full of sinners. How many douche bag politicians, who all claim to believe in the sanctity of marriage and are avid church goers, end up getting caught in scandals?[/QUOTE]
Let’s not forget he was a very close confidant of GWB…
[QUOTE=Hebrew Hammer;1104346]Because MK considers him an example of your church going leader, who has in the past stated some questionable remarks that many consider to be racist. His point being that going to church does not make for a good president.[/QUOTE]
He’s not my “church going leader”. Actually in my book he is a false prophet as he has made Biblical predictions that have not come true.
Also, I never said going to church makes for a good President.
Many of the posts the last couple days here have been people putting words in my mouth. Let’s discuss what we actually think/believe, not what someone else says we think and believe. If you are unsure of a stance/belief of mine, just ask me. I’m very open and honest about my political and religious beliefs.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1104356]Let’s not forget he was a very close confidant of GWB…[/QUOTE]
Since Bush is not running in the election of 2012 and did not participate in the debate that’s the topic, why did you even bring him into the discussion?
So then tell us what you thought was so redeeming about Michelle’s debating skills other than defending her Tea Party stance?? What did she do to win you over?
I must admit, last time around 2008, I thought Ron Paul had won many of those debates hands down. I respect him, his stances and would listen to his proposals…although I don’t agree with all them. Its hard to find any candidate of any party that we could completely agree with. But Ron Paul avoids much of the Social Issues, that turn me off about the Republicans and focuses on economic and foreign policy ideology. He would make for a solid candidate. That being said, its a beauty pageant, and we probably won’t win against Rommney or Bachman. What do you like about him?
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1104367]Since Bush is not running in the election of 2012 and did not participate in the debate that’s the topic, why did you even bring him into the discussion?[/QUOTE]
Did you prefer Romney to Bush in 2000?
[QUOTE=Hebrew Hammer;1104390]But Ron Paul avoids much of the Social Issues, that turn me off about the Republicans and focuses on economic and foreign policy ideology. [/QUOTE] Except he believes prayer in school should be allowed and doesn’t believe in evolution.
Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the criminal justice system, I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal. Printed In Ron Pauls Newsletter (but not written by him)
Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action. Printed In Ron Pauls Newsletter (but not written by him)
The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Ron Paul
The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Ron Paul
Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view. The justification is always that someone, somewhere, might possibly be offended or feel uncomfortable living in the midst of a largely Christian society, so all must yield to the fragile sensibilities of the few. The ultimate goal of the anti-religious elites is to transform America into a completely secular nation, a nation that is legally and culturally biased against Christianity. Ron Paul
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1104395]Except he believes prayer in school should be allowed and doesn’t believe in evolution.
Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the ‘criminal justice system,’ I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal. — Printed In Ron Paul’s Newsletter (but not written by him)
Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action. — Printed In Ron Paul’s Newsletter (but not written by him)
The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. — Ron Paul
The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. — Ron Paul
Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view. The justification is always that someone, somewhere, might possibly be offended or feel uncomfortable living in the midst of a largely Christian society, so all must yield to the fragile sensibilities of the few. The ultimate goal of the anti-religious elites is to transform America into a completely secular nation, a nation that is legally and culturally biased against Christianity. — Ron Paul[/QUOTE]
I’m not going to credit those first two comments to him, the only one that concerns me is the last one, but again its his opinion and I have yet to see him make that a focal point of his campaign or him putting forth any legislation on that. We are a secular society whether he likes it or not. I don’t get how some Christians feel they under attack…they have no idea what that’s really like.
He is entitled to his opinion on evolution, who cares, none of us were around to confirm it and it will continue to exist regardless of his opinion.
[QUOTE=Hebrew Hammer;1104390]So then tell us what you thought was so redeeming about Michelle’s debating skills other than defending her Tea Party stance?? What did she do to win you over?[/QUOTE]
She didn’t win me over, per se. Most pundits (and myself) gave her credit for how she came off in the debate. Prior to it she was portryed as a loon, an idiot, and a member of a racist organization, for starters. She was able to explain her stances on issues very clearly and did not come off as stupid, ill-informed, uncaring, or racist as she was upposed to have been according to the mainstream press.
Read what David Gergen said about her performance. He summed it up quite well. I found myself agreeing with alot of his thoughts on her performance in the debate.
[QUOTE=Hebrew Hammer;1104390]What do you like about him?[/QUOTE]
I like that he is a STRICT follower of the Constitution. My only concern with him is foreign policy. In my opinion, the best foreign policy the US can have is “speak softly and carry a big stick.” I worry other nations will view him as a strict isolationist and not respect us. But on fiscal and domestic policy, I can’t think of any issue I disagree with him on.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1104391]Did you prefer Romney to Bush in 2000?[/QUOTE]
First off, I voted for Alan Keyes in the primaries.
But I would have preferred Bush to Romney if they were the only 2. Religion had ZERO to do with my choice however. Bush was my Governor and imo he did a great job. Specifically he refused to raise taxes and signed into law the concealed handgun bill. So since he was a good Governor, I felt he would be a good President. Both are Chief Executive jobs. As to Romney, I did not like the healthcare law he signed into law in Massachusetts.
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1104306]No, I did not say ANY of that.
What I said was I’d rather have a Mormon as President than a guy who goes to a church that spews hate and racism.[/QUOTE]You didn’t but the inference is clear, especially given your other post about ‘mainstream’ Mormons. Romney is OK even if he is a Mormon because the practices of his religion don’t necessarily reflect upon him as an individual. But the same doesn’t apply to Obama. Why exactly?
[QUOTE=Hebrew Hammer;1104145]You mean more crazy than a Virgin Birth? Or walking on water, living to be 700 yrs old (Moses)? Parting the Red Sea? or rising from the dead?? Mehh…
I don’t vote for a someone because of their religion, we don’t get to vote for the Pope and I can’t remember any American president that was viewed as a man of God other than maybe Jimmy Carter. We just need to drop this topic as part of the vetting and get $$$ and political contributions out of the political system.
We should be voting for the person with the best ideas and plans for real pragmatic approaches to our nations problems. How far has idealism gotten us?
PS You’re right, it is offensive…just like people have issues with voting for a muslim, a jew, a catholic or an atheist. Its all balderdash.[/QUOTE]
considering the time periods, yeah, its way crazier… besides, virgin births, parting seas etc etc never happened either… they are just stories to learn from…
You can find Ron Paul’s stances on school prayer here. It shows his voting record and a bill he co-sponsored on the issue.
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Ron_Paul_Education.htm
[QUOTE=CFT;1104686]You didn’t but the inference is clear, especially given your other post about ‘mainstream’ Mormons. Romney is OK even if he is a Mormon because the practices of his religion don’t necessarily reflect upon him as an individual. But the same doesn’t apply to Obama. Why exactly?[/QUOTE]
Again, I did not say that. A word of advice; take what I actually said and comment on that. Don’t start adding in things I didn’t say.
AGAIN, I said this:
“I’d rather have a Mormon as President than a guy who goes to a church that spews hate and racism.”
Nowhere did I say “the practices of his religion don’t necessarily reflect upon him as an individual”. I simply said that in terms of religion, I’d prefer a Mormon to a guy who went to a church that preaches hate and racism. Now if you were to show that Romney’s pastor/church spew hatred and racism I would say that in terms of religion they are both equal.
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1104649]Religion had ZERO to do with my choice however.[/QUOTE]
They why is this an issue?
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1104649]I’d rather have a Mormon as President than a guy who goes to a church that spews hate and racism.[/QUOTE]
As for the charge he is racist (which is par for the course for Republicans :rolleyes:), remember that he is for legalizing drugs. And we can all agree that the war on drugs has resulted in a skewed number of blacks going to prison for drug crimes as opposed to whites. Take cocaine for example; the penalties involving powdered cocaine are less than the penalties for rock/crack cocaine. And powdered cocaine is more of a ‘white drug’, while rock/crack cocaine is more of a ‘black drug’.
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1104840]
Nowhere did I say “the practices of his religion don’t necessarily reflect upon him as an individual”. I simply said that in terms of religion, I’d prefer a Mormon to a guy who went to a church that preaches hate and racism. Now if you were to show that Romney’s pastor/church spew hatred and racism I would say that in terms of religion they are both equal.[/QUOTE]
Bush’s religious confidant, Pat Robertson, did and does regularly spew hate. So I expect you think that reflects poorly on Bush, correct?
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1104845]Bush’s religious confidant, Pat Robertson, did and does regularly spew hate. So I expect you think that reflects poorly on Bush, correct?[/QUOTE]
I disagree he does. Now I do admit I’ve not listened to him for years (listening to false prophets is not my cup of tea), but as I recall he simply says a sin is a sin. In my book that’s not hate. As to the other part, I never heard him utter one racist thing. Can you agree he is not racist whether we agree or disagree on the hate part?
Can you also expand on Robertson’s role/relationship with Bush? I’m not up to par on that issue.