Forgive me if this sounds too esoteric.
Wing chun doesn’t have attack or defense. It has Wing Chun. They are the same.
A Bong is a bong, a jum is a jum, just as gon, pak, and tok are what they are.
They may be used in the manner that the individual wishes according to the situation.
Maybe I don’t understand the question.
Wing Chun defense should be about these two things irrespective of technique
Footwork to put yourself in a position to counter attack
A mindset that you aren’t going to let the opponent tee off in terms of volume of techniques or power.
Say you were hug on the waist level from front. what do you do with your WCK to dissolve the situation?
if you have space in the right places:
Two pak saos on the chin and push/twist his chin away as you move your hips away.
or
Two Pak saos on the hips and move your hips away.
If you don’t have that space:
Get ready to use your WC groundfighting, because that’s where you’re going.
You can poke the eyes or throat with your deadly bil jee fingers, unless the guy knows how to protect these in the hug, which is not all that difficult.
Forgive me if this sounds too esoteric.
You’re forgiven.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1000872]link is hung gar killing hands ?[/QUOTE]
thats the one!
at 2.34? he’s using the bong to dissipate the energy and the twist in his horse on the return to generate power.
i have been told in the past that bong sau ALWAYS turns. although i’m not sure about the truth of this in EVERY situation, but IME it certainly does more than it doesnt.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1000907]Thanks for sharing your view.
For me, this is a question related to WCK’s deliver inch force strike at the hug.. because every part of WCner suppose to be able to deliver strike…etc and body is as good as any other part of the body to deliver.
The bottom line of WCK’s defense, strike with any part of the body at any time.
Just some thoughts.[/QUOTE]
do you think this was good wing chun then?
‘inch’ power?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/8570398.stm
just kidding 
[QUOTE=LSWCTN1;1000950]thats the one!
at 2.34? he’s using the bong to dissipate the energy and the twist in his horse on the return to generate power.
i have been told in the past that bong sau ALWAYS turns. although i’m not sure about the truth of this in EVERY situation, but IME it certainly does more than it doesnt.[/QUOTE]
We only turn to face our attacking line …bong for US is a fast action, with ballistic , displacing force …like pak sao it ‘slaps’ arms out of the way alone then the elbow drops , fast…if the arm we slap doesn’t move we use lop sao… if it moves we have an opening to strike into…
like a boxer raising his forearm/elbow to parry a punch coming over his arm…we do the action to ‘clear’ a space and strike , attacking.
Bong can be used moving towards the opponent, or sideways attacking/following from flanks, because its ballistic energy transfer puts the line of energy we move …past us and to the side of our heads /bodies as we go forwards or sideways…
we displace energy ‘from’ our centerlines using ballistic force …pak energy stops suddenly at our centerlines to displace arms so it can hit from the centerline, our arm doesnt x the line…jums energy is the same , to the line and forwards …bongsaos forearm is crossing the cenrerline in the middle of the raised forearm…using the forearm like pak sao…left to right or right to left, depending what flank your on or arm you redirect…as you face attacking.
some try to ‘jam’ with bong, wrong thinking…because the idea is to strike attack immediately…so elbows lower asap as chi-sao drills to become a strike…cycling.
lan sao is a jam.
bong 'thinking has no fixed level iow we can do a bong depending on the height relationship of the arms …low high middle all one bong idea…so whatever level your arm is relative to their incoming line that has xed your arms strike path…
each action we do helps maintain a closed flank attack…iow an outside edge strike <[tan] an inside edge strike following<[jum] a bong <moving the energy in the direction to follow the leading strikes to further shut down recovery to face us…pak sao <in the same direction or
the guy shifts and moves the other direction and all the energy we produce in our techniques goes >>>>> strike strike bong pak etc…> he moves to the other side of our line and we dont chase with arms , we turn ourselves and our centerline to reface and change the energy in our techniques to <<<<<<
this why we develop striking at a basic level with 2 energies …forwards and dsplacing from outside or inside the forearms..the ballistic energy produced from fast strikes with elbows leaving as tan or staying as jum can generate the displacing force of a pak sao…as it strikes forwards at the same time…each arm has tan/jum built into it as energy…rather than a 'pose or 1/2 measure…sure we can do anything and use them as blocks ..but once you see the attacking ability you now have why go slower why use more than you have to to get the job done …economy of motion.
“i have been told in the past that bong sau ALWAYS turns. although i’m not sure about the truth of this in EVERY situation, but IME it certainly does more than it doesnt.” (LSWCTN1)
***YES, you need to turn with bong sao in order to generate enough power to deflect the oncoming blow and provide yourself with the space you need to turn this into offense…so come into his space and turn when using bong sao.
…
"some try to ‘jam’ with bong, wrong thinking…because the idea is to strike attack immediately…so elbows lower asap as chi-sao drills to become a strike…cycling.
lan sao is a jam." (k gledhill)
***DISAGREE…bong sao (deflecting) can easily become lan sao (jamming) - and often will - depending upon how the opponent reacts to the bong sao.
If from in contact, then Bong as I use it, deals with energy crossing/leaving the line, so a quick bong snap is all that is needed to help them leave, clearing that line, again for our attack.
Very little, if any, turning needed for that use of the bong. I don’t normally turn away from the line..
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1000963]
bong 'thinking has no fixed level iow we can do a bong depending on the height relationship of the arms …low high middle all one bong idea…so whatever level your arm is relative to their incoming line that has xed your arms strike path…
.[/QUOTE]
its similar to the hacking elbows from chum kui in a way. you allow the strike to run by you. you use the bog as the cover and the turn on the way theremoves you to a flank. then the opposite rotation creates a LOT of power.
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;1000969]“i have been told in the past that bong sau ALWAYS turns. although i’m not sure about the truth of this in EVERY situation, but IME it certainly does more than it doesnt.” (LSWCTN1)
***YES, you need to turn with bong sao in order to generate enough power to deflect the oncoming blow and provide yourself with the space you need to turn this into offense…so come into his space and turn when using bong sao.
…
"some try to ‘jam’ with bong, wrong thinking…because the idea is to strike attack immediately…so elbows lower asap as chi-sao drills to become a strike…cycling.
lan sao is a jam." (k gledhill)
***DISAGREE…bong sao (deflecting) can easily become lan sao (jamming) - and often will - depending upon how the opponent reacts to the bong sao.[/QUOTE]
a la Duncan Leung
[QUOTE=YungChun;1000974]If from in contact, then Bong as I use it, deals with energy crossing/leaving the line, so a quick bong snap is all that is needed to help them leave, clearing that line, again for our attack.
Very little, if any, turning needed for that use of the bong. I don’t normally turn away from the line..[/QUOTE]
all of these points, though different, are legitimate.
can you make what you are taught work for you? if you can then you are 90% there.
i used to learn a bong with wrist at throat level, fingers towards opponent, and elbow at eye level. it deflects a punch extremely well.
i saw a William Cheung clip where he grabs the hand pointing towards him and turns it up. i had to change it slightly (thats where i got my idea of a ‘punching’ bong because at the elbow level the hand still needs to go forward).
i started with my present instructor and was shown why bong is only for a certain ‘level’ and how the elbow NEVER goes higher than the shoulder.
90% of the time it should work like that. but i dont want the remaining 10% to ever be a factor.
I would say you learn the moves to learn the function. Once the function is achieved, the “form” isn’t required any more, so that on appearance, you don’t need tan, bong, etc. but on a functional level, tan, bong etc. are all there although, from a 3rd party observer, it may appear as if it was never there.
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;1000673]A blocking system? Avoidance? Deflection?
Yes, all of the above.
Good, now that we’ve got that out of the way, here’s what I’m really getting at…Many people in the wing chun world talk about the art being concept based, and therefore there are no specific techniques to be used in any given situation - including while on defense. Because the art is “concept” based…not “technique” based.
We’ve all heard this, right?
Well if this is true, then what are the following wing chun “moves” for?
Pak
bil
tan
garn
bong
lan
chuen
jut
huen
fuk
gum
lop
Now I’m purposely not going to get into (not now, anyway)…how bong can be (or should be) used against this, how pak can be (or should be) used against that, or how bil, (or bil/lop) as defense can be (or should be) used against something else, etc…
but rather, I’m throwing this out to the forum:
If such ideas about how to use various wing chun moves aren’t valid as defense (or as part of one’s wing chun defensive maneuvers)…in addition to outright “avoidance” as defense (via footwork and angling)…
if such ideas about the above moves aren’t valid when it comes to a blocking or redirecting type of defense…
then what are the above moves actually for?
Now Yes, I realize that moves like lop, and lan, and one or two others that have been mentioned can be used as part of offense…
but all of the moves mentioned above can be part of one’s wing chun defense, ime. And in specific situations, imo, as opposed to other “specific” situations wherein using A would make no sense against that uppercut…but using B would make sense, for example.
But where are the moves? Where is the defense? Do you use them?
If not, why bother learning them? If you don’t use them, (and assuming that you do spar/fight, whatever)…then what’s the reason why you don’t (or can’t) use them?
Some people might say that if you extend your arm out as part of a defensive manuever you are exposing yourself to getting hit - and at certain distances this is true, imo…but at other distances this objection makes no sense to me whatsoever.
But where are the moves? (As defense) Who’s using them? And if not, why not?
And in anticipation of someone saying that these moves as defense are unnecessary - because you should be attacking (and therefore you’re not on defense)…well, yes…
but you’re not always going to be attacking; alas, there will be times when defense is an absolute must. 
So again: Where are the moves?[/QUOTE]
turning with bong is done only to face the direction your attacking, not to turn force…if you miss the ‘force’ you will understand this …your now turned and they arent
bong can become lan but lan is not bong structure… bong is a lateral displacing force left or right to your centerline…using the hips etc..as CK
lan sao is a bar/rigid using the hips as CK , lan is lower than shoulders to pin arms, use force of elbow to turn opponent…like po-pai energy to shove back into attack distances.
we use bong as chi-sao …if a strike comes over the arms strike path we can make an attack with bong /wu and recover the bridge by sinking theirs underneath ours again…
turning bong to redirect energy is a chi-sao thing …