[QUOTE=JPinAZ;1022383]Youâre right, experiences obviously vary greatly, because I canât even relate to the things you are talking about. This stuff isnât what WC is to me. For one, I donât understand what you mean by common chi sau techniques. You mean tan bong fook? Chi Sau is a lot more than these 3 techniques, thatâs just one part of the equation. When you ask âhowâs that working out for meâ, I am probably safe to assume youâre not really talking about âmeâ again, even if you are replying to me.
Again, I am sorry this is your experience, but youâre tight, itâs not everyoneâs. Now I think I can understand why you might have a bad taste in your mouth for WC.
Again, I have no idea what youâre talking about. What is the âclassical senseâ of WC training? Itâs not what you listed above I hope (?)
As for lasting more than 30 seconds, either you refering to a lack of skill or lack of conditioning. Both can be a product of the training, but itâs not a fault of the system itself if it isnât there.
Youâre kinda making some sense now. Simple, effective and Iâd add, efficient. That is more what WC is all about to me.
Still having a difficult time understanding/relating to what yourâe saying. Now if you really think WC is everything you listed in your very first paragraph of your reply above, then I guess I can see your frustration with being taught to block kicks like this. But again, I understand WC a bit differently.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1022391]Vankuen,
When youâre talking about skilled non-WC people and fighting here, what are you talking about specifically? People who do fights? MT/kickboxing, MMA fights?
And what type of fighting do you do that youâre talking about. Again, see my comment above - trying to figure out what exactly weâre talking here.[/QUOTE]
Iâll try to elaborate a bit guys.
First, I enjoy training wing chun, I donât have a bad taste in my mouth for the system as a whole, I have a bad taste in my mouth for the organization, lack of true fighting knowledge in the teachers and/or lack of care in the realism of what they teach, and lack of proven curriculum.
The stuff Iâm talking about isnât necessarily the way I was taught, but the way the general public is taught. The reason I have a concern about it, is because itâs turning the wing chun general populace into a non-fighting, delusional bunch who get laughed at by everyone else who fights.
Common wing chun scenarios that you see in Chi sao would be for example the bong, lap, wang jeung flow. Very common, but lacking in power or realism against those that are non wing chun types. Lap sao in general, unless done at the very onset of the fight against a slow puncher, isnât going to work at all. Youâll never pull it off on a boxer or someone who punches quickly, and youâll never be able to pull it off on someone who is sweaty. The chop, Iâve yet to see anyone do it in such a way where damage would actually result from it. Itâs all arm and contains zero power. Anyone trying this would get run through by any remotely athletic person. Though practicing nicely in an air conditioned kwoon at a nice relaxed pace will always product a good (and unrealistic) result of the technique. Do you see what Iâm getting at there?
Another example would be like something where the teacher shows that a person punches a straight punch, then defender will pak, lap/grap the wrist, step out press down, then rotate the wrist counter clockwise, press the elbow, and then kick the leg. This is a joint lock which in theory COULD work, but has proven to be useless in standup fighting against skilled folks. It takes too long, itâs unrealistic, itâs not efficient, and itâs not going to work against someone with a big muscular arm whoâs fighting back. This one in particular is taught by a very well known instructor who is known from a wing chun âfightingâ line.
The 30 second thing IS fault of the systems curriculumâŚyes itâs conditioningâŚbut conditioning shouldnât be separate from the training system. It should be inherent. This is proven through those that fight consistently. If wing chun is to be taken seriously, it needs to incorporate those things that will produce good fighters. Right now the classical curriculum doesnât do thisâŚonly certain individual teachers. It used to be part of all gung fu systems from what I understandâŚso what happened??
So while I donât think that wing chun is everything Iâve mentioned, those are some of the areas that need to be âfixedâ. I wouldnât practice wing chun at all if I thought it was uselessâfar from it. However it needs another overhaul for sure.
OH and Wayfaring,
Iâm talking about anyone that practices a full contact fighting art, be it Karate, Sanda, Muay Thai, Wrestling, Boxing, Sambo, MMA, and etc.
What type of fighting do I do? My standup today consists mainly of wing chun, muay thai, Sanda, and some remnants of the TKD, Karate, and Gung fu.
when ive had fights that ended up on a nightclub floor or sparring it always worked for me. Funny but the blue belt level of Judo I managed has been adequate ⌠I also wrestled in school.
btw I did a demo of VT in their mock up jet cabins inside a building near Newark airport, we showed how the system functions without any restrictions in a confined area, using bulkheads to aim for as the âwallâ or exit door for attacking focus points to end up at, seats to immobilize escape from our relentless attackingâŚThe guys watching liked the simultaneous leg trapping as well as the pak to elbow trapsâŚYou cant hit as much in any âresponseâ for obvious legal reasons, think Rodney King !
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