Mika, I’ll answer for WD. WD’s SJ teacher is my student. He moved to New York, leaving Northwest Indiana without a coach. WD has been a good long distance student, but he’s at a stage where he needs to fight. After reviewing the schools around, MT’s was the best that fitted our philosophy. Now they have tasted Combat Shuai Chiao, and we have a MMA school that respects CMA. Well, at least CSC. The cross-training is now going both ways.
WD has represented us well, and has earned a place in the sun. My teacher has always reccommended cross training in like minded arts as a way to get more fighting experience and therefore more insights into your SC practice. I live this philosophy.
I can only speak to the CSC I’ve been taught, and can’t speak about the other groups and thier methods. CSC is the most comprehensive and efficient training method I’ve seen. It produces consistent results. One of my other students has fought in many tough guy contests and has zero losses to date. Very few other martial arts groups come to play at our open tournaments - they watch and don’t fight. I never understood this. There will be another one in Austin this October - I’m planning on bringing a team - my first chance to do this in over five years. Everybody should come.
As far as ‘good’ MMA and Combat Shuai chiao - I think they have more in common than not.
I have studied ISCA Shuai Chiao for five years and this is my opinion:
Shuai Chiao is not Judo
Shuai Chiao locks the arms, legs and body to facillitate a throw
and to grab skin (eg fleshy inner thigh) instead of the cloth gi.
There is more power in Shuai Chiao technique (as with the leg blocking techniques)
Shuai Chiao advanced technique is very unortodox (nowaday) and not easy to pull off
it needs specific traing to the legs in order to sweep and capture and twist like a top
all the while not losing your balance or getting ditched by your opponent.
Alot of the traing is good for devolping fundamentals but after a few years is “crap”
one step sparring and such. It frustrated me to no end.
and…
Judo evolved from shuai Chaio via jiujitsu -obviously- Shuai chiao went to japan, reasearch it if you don’t believe me.
Judo IS good
I LIKE judo, the arts are very much the same.
Randori training is better
the Ground work is better
Shaui Chiao doesn’t “do” dogfighting
and the heart of men like Kimura are not to be found these days
Chang knew this, when he taught in Taiwan he tought no one closed door. He broke his ass being the best and no one was willing to do the same to learn from him everyone wanted a hand out so he said “**** em’”
Shuai Chiao (as I learned it) is full of invaluable treasures. Training methods (iso power sets, stances) things that I cherish and feel have been erroneously ignored and forgotten. BUT a few years ago I fought a impromptu MMA match and although I won, I found my training incomplete.
Now I cross train…like everyone else
Shuai chaio has good tactics, stuff that isn’t in Judo or wrestling (like foot seizes) and has developed me as a fighter in a very unorthdox way. I’m not the guy that is going to tell you it is the end all be all…because there are no such things
but i will tell you I have both used it to great advantage in class and in tornaments ( ALONG with and NOT excluding my freestyle wrestling and BJJ) and that now and again when going for a sweet throw I get myself in dutch (SUPLEX)…(ouch)
Chang beat everyone because he was a superb wrestler
Shaolin and other CMA’s became weak because while originally (and in some cases still) contained a good amount of shaui Chiao, this was de-emphasized because it hurts to get tossed all the time.
Along comes the grappler and… we all know this story.
Shuai Chiao is just and old version of it.
And I will tell you that I believe it has fallen behind becuase of a lack of sport competition.
The ISCA isn’t into it
but I’m not them
I didn’t like those Clips either, I saw them years ago
I more than any of you NEEDED to see my art in action
I wished a SC man entered the UFC back then
I wish I could tell myself a nice bedtime story
but I’m way past bedtime and I know CMA is decaying
-thankfully- down to the bitter roots
and (hopefully) all the garbage will die and all that is left is what is strongest.
…apologies for the long read
He also wrote:
for instnace the leg block
say your going to hip throw (wavy lines denoting imagination here)
sometimes you step a leg back for the person to fall over
instead you whip the hips and upper body whilst
(yup i said whilst)
slamming the leg in the area of the oppnents most convinient leg
in essence getting them to fall forward while one leg goes backward and your leg barring the knee making a popping noise. (notice i empasize the power with adjectives!)
little things like that are what sperate SC and judo
judo designed by Kano for sport
SC evolved by combat
Judo being better due to sport (irony)
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8144&perpage=15&pagenumber=5
It seems Shuai Jiao (or Shuai Chiao) is an art that is close to some other arts but has its own distinct features. The links are really good.
I have one more question about this: since these are the times of MMA (and BJJ and ground grappling), do any SJ (SC) schools now incorporate any ground work?
“Judo evolved from shuai Chaio via jiujitsu -obviously- Shuai chiao went to japan, reasearch it if you don’t believe me.”
Actually, that can’t be proved. Nobody has found a verifiable link between jujutsu and an art from china. Also, the sc guys say that sumo is more similar to sc’s method than jujutsu…
It seems Shuai Jiao (or Shuai Chiao) is an art that is close to some other arts but has its own distinct features. The links are really good.
I have one more question about this: since these are the times of MMA (and BJJ and ground grappling), do any SJ (SC) schools now incorporate any ground work?
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WD and I did a few rounds of freewrestling last night that went to the ground. When it did I got killed, but it’s an interesting experience to see what happens if you stuff a throw and go down as well.
As far as Shuai Chiao’s distinct features, lemme just say they’re good enough for me-- a former boxer and muay thai guy-- to stick around. The training’s brutal, my seniors are all excellent guys who know how to use the material, and there’s a lot of encouragement to get out there and mix it up with other schools and disciplines.
reality - no amount of SC is going to save you when julio, hector, juan, raul, martin, humberto, tito, roberto & antonio back you into a corner and beat the **** out of you.
anyone (ANYONE) might get off a shot of two in a scrap but NO ONE is going to walk away from that without getting the living **** beat out of them..
