Apparently there is a little confusion going on, so I’d like to take a moment and clear something up for everyone. Shuai Chiao is a Chinese martial art. Yes, I know it can be hard to believe. We don’t develop Chi, we’re not deadly to be in the ring, and we generally agree more with NHB and San Shou crowd than Kung Fu crowd, but we are a Chinese martial art. In fact, Shuai Chiao is a TRADITIONAL Chinese martial art.
Shuai Chiao may even be the oldest of the Chinese martial arts. We can trace our art back a good 2000 years. No, we weren’t created by an immortal Taoist monk, just a bunch of crazy Chinese guys that like to throw each other on their head, but we do have the woodcuts and records to back up our claim. We have probably influenced your art to some extent. If you have either Shuai or Na in your art, there’s a good chance it came from some form of Shuai Chiao.
Are you with me so far? Good, because it gets really confusing now. A lot of times you will see other, non-Chinese arts discussed on Shuai Chiao threads. There is a good reason for this and it shouldn’t scare you away. You see, in Shuai Chiao, we have this crazy idea that martial arts are supposed to be for fighting. Because of this, we look at other arts that actually fight (San Shou, Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ, etc) and try to figure out how to beat them. This actually shouldn’t be tooo much of a shock though, as over half the threads around here are about BJJ ( a non-Chinese martial art)
In conclusion, Shuai Chiao is a Chinese Martial art, a form of Kung Fu and not an Other Related Art. I hope this clears up any confusion for our esteemed posters and moderators.
I agree. I’ve always felt an internal energy (not in a goofy mystical way, but more in a “core” and off balancing way) with judo than any other combat sport I’ve studied.
Shui Chiao is great. I use the basics (that’s all I know) when doing sweep/throw round robbins at my gym. It feels natural with my KF background, and yes is a traditional cma. It even has *****in’ names for postures like “leaning forward to search for the sea”. My biggest beef with both traditional and modern/sports guys on this board is this belief that cma is a striking art only. At the core of most good fighting that I’ve seen, weather bjj, judo, cma, boxing etc. the general idea is to uproot (make unbalanced) your opponent, then attack/finish. In other words, gain position, then apply your technique.
I agree with the now exposed chi hippy st00 in that the biggest problem with so called traditional martial arts today is the lack of competition, and theory of application based on unrealistic training. Those on the board who know older generation cma people, have seen them either invited or invite other cma practitioners to exchange ideas and fight at a high level. Yes, people even get hurt! That’s why a lot of these folks are experts in chinese medicine as well. CMA often expound control, so in my view it should not be a huge jump to be able to do some kind of comp in the ring with more traditional fighting, even outside of San Shou. I think the biggest problem is the lack of cooperation and organization amongst different schools under the modern dojoish mckwoon (note: I am not criticising Karate here, just the modern dojo).
I kinda side tracked this thread, so to bring it back, I would like to see other cma events held that allowed the modern practitioner an avenue where they could participate in a full contact event. That way, different schools could showcase their fighters using the same techniques that they learn in class. Shuai Chiao does it, why can’t others?
Kung Fu started with wrestling from India if you didn’t know
False, Chinese Kung Fu started with the first chinese caveman hitting another, and then teaching how he did it to his clan. Were talking 20,000 years BC or more.
According to the “Spring and Autum” of Chinese martial arts", there is archialogical evidence of martial practice as far back as 1.7 million years in the form of fighting tools, and cave paintings.
By 2100 BC, the Xia dynasty was born, China’s first slave state marking the end of primitive society. According to the Spring and Autum of Chinese martial arts", there were both armed and unarmed systems being practiced by the mlitary, and civillian populations. Shaolin Temple was built almost 3000 years later. Then, it’s the Yogic traditions of India that were imported, and used as physical training, not the martial arts. The martial arts themselves are, and always have been purely Chinese in origin.
It is said during the reing of Hung Ti, organised combat in the form of “Horn” locking was practiced. This is the forebearer of Chinese Wrestling or Shui Chaio.
That all being said, Shui Chiao is arguably the OLDEST martial art in existence, short of maybe Greaco Roman wrestling.
Wrestling is the oldest sport let alone martial art.
there is archialogical evidence of martial practice as far back as 1.7 million years in the form of fighting tools, and cave paintings
Yes, they did kill animals and each other
there is archialogical evidence of martial practice as far back as 1.7 million years in the form of fighting tools, and cave paintings
I some how had the idea that cave paintings only ever showed aminals…I could be wrong about this but I would be very interested in seeing a cave painting showing 2 trogs grappling.
Also at what point did Shuai Chiao become Shuai Chiao as u know it (i.e. a formal system) and not just wreastling that you could find every where else in the world?
Don’t know for sure (Without a time machine), supposedly in the time of the Yellow Emperor, or about 4000 years ago. Shaolin and it’s Indian influance is a tad over 1500. I’m sure curriculems were varied, but all the concepts were suposedly inplace by then, maybe earlier.
It’s been awile since I looked at this stuff, but I seem to remeber that arrows uncovered from that far back were horisontally made. This indicates use against humans because our rib slots are horisontal. Hungting arrows are vertical to more easily slide thru the vertiucal rib slots of game.
Either way, it indicates the Chinese were fighting long before the infuance of the Indian “Monks”, and Chinese Kung Fu IS a uniquely Chinese system of combat (for the most part).
