im a fan of the introductory contract. one trial/viewing
sign contract for 1-3 months. if you like it, then go for the year+ contract.
simple
Contracts are fair. The risk an individual takes to open a school requires some mitigation in order to be able to manage the cashflow that allows for a good student experience.
It’s good to live up to your obligations. I have no problem signing on the dotted line if i am committed to something.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;758619]
Go to NYU and tell them you want to pay per class you attend and if you don’t complete the semester you want a refund…
[/QUOTE]
I think there is a problem with perceived value. People realize the value of college education…ie more earning potential. But the value of martial arts training is more ephemeral…its not as highly valued. Plus you have the charlatans out there that lower the perceived value even more. So you’re always going to have people that are trying to chince there MA teachers. Not saying its right…
FP
as I sit here on the 30th sweating the rent check tomorrow because 30% of my student base hasn’t paid yet…contracts are going to be a reality at my school before too long.
martial arts is all about commitment, if as student can’t commit to being cognizant enough to write a check every month…then a contract is necessary.
[QUOTE=Oso;758677]as I sit here on the 30th sweating the rent check tomorrow because 30% of my student base hasn’t paid yet…contracts are going to be a reality at my school before too long.
martial arts is all about commitment, if as student can’t commit to being cognizant enough to write a check every month…then a contract is necessary.[/QUOTE]
they are just lucky you accept checks! :eek:
I have trouble wrapping my brain around why people think it’s perfectly ok to rip off MA instructors. You always hear,“I didn’t come in for two weeks,month,etc. do I still have to pay?” or.“We’re going on vacation for two weeks, etc”
Yet, you wouldn’t DREAM of saying,
“I didn’t drive this week, so I won’t be making a full car payment”
“We’re going on vacation, so we won’t pay the mortgage”
“I didn’t eat the peas and carrots, so could you take that off the bill?”
“I know I ordered the fillet, but after I ate some of it, I decided to go for pizza. Can I have my money back?”
Perhaps I can tell my landlord, or the utilities company the same thing.
I can see why some instructors need to, but it really depends on how much morality the instructor must give up in order to make enough money, and what morals they are able to set aside to do so.
Why is it the instructor’s morality the issue, and not the morality of the student?
I can understand if the instructor is teaching McKwoon crapola, but if he is teaching a good class, good system,good curriculum, etc, then his morality is not in question.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;758682]I have trouble wrapping my brain around why people think it’s perfectly ok to rip off MA instructors. You always hear,“I didn’t come in for two weeks,month,etc. do I still have to pay?” or.“We’re going on vacation for two weeks, etc”
Yet, you wouldn’t DREAM of saying,
“I didn’t drive this week, so I won’t be making a full car payment”
“We’re going on vacation, so we won’t pay the mortgage”
“I didn’t eat the peas and carrots, so could you take that off the bill?”
“I know I ordered the fillet, but after I ate some of it, I decided to go for pizza. Can I have my money back?”
Perhaps I can tell my landlord, or the utilities company the same thing.[/QUOTE]
I think you are talking about something else. Like if the student doesn’t want to pay because he didn’t attend classes. Is that what you are saying? If so, that problem is solved by collecting payment at the beginning of the month. If he doesn’t show up for classes that month, you still get paid.
i think you can break it down 2 ways.
money grubbers and martial arts instructors.
some people are just plain money grubbers. there always have been and always will be people willing to exploit just about anything to make a buck.
these are the guys you have to beware of.
then there are martial arts instructors. depending on several factors the instructor will have to make decisions. one of these decisions will be how to operate thier intruction. sometimes it will be a business, sometimes it will just be teaching. and sometimes you have the inbetween (which often times will be forced to go buisiness as they get more notice/students, as well as circumstances changing, or cut back to keep that small quaint home style instruction going)
for the instructor gearing towards the business aspect, a contract is an inevitability. put it off as long as you want. if you want to run a business and have clients who are expected to uphold a portion of a bargain, you need that shiznat in writing or you WILL get screwed.
business is business after all, and the current times will demand you run your business after a certain fassion if you want to be up to par with the times.
I think there should always be an option for month-to-month, albeit at a higher price- they don’t know if you’ll be back next month, and if you’re not it will help cover expenses until you come back, or someone else joins. If you’re willing to sign up for a contract, you should be given a lower price- they know you’re putting in the time and effort, and aren’t going to flake. Plus, if you’ve been there a while and you know your instructor pretty well, they might “freeze” your contract if you have to go out of town for a while, or are injured, and simply resume it when you get back.
The fact is, most Martial Arts instructors aren’t out there to take your money, rubbing their hands with glee and laughing at your gullibility- there are much more profitable and less risky ways of doing that. And the ones that ARE money-hungry belt factory chain schools usually start out with a sincere desire to teach, which is likely how they got their classes so big to begin with. (Villari’s, Tiger Schulmann, etc…)
What I hate is when you walk into an MA school, you listen to their pitch, their class looks fun and everything’s going good. Then you ask how much instruction is, and they beat around the bush all day and keep trying to pitch you. Even if their intentions are good (unlikely, but I’m giving the benefit of the doubt since I’ve never run a school) it’s annoying and shady.
PangQuan
How will you get screwed if you charge on a monthly basis and collect payment at the beginning of each month?
because they bail out in june and july, and show up in November, or dissapear during Chinese New Year and saunter back in in March.
I don’t charge tuition. I have a yearly membership,which is paid off on a monthly basis. You come, great. You don’t come-doesn’t matter, you bought a year membership. Period.
-oh, btw, when I say it doesn’t matter, I am not talking about an indifference to my students. I am strictly speaking of finances.
[QUOTE=The Xia;758690]How will you get screwed if you charge on a monthly basis and collect payment at the beginning of each month?[/QUOTE]
you wont.
this is how the class is that i currently attend. i like it very much.
but try doing that method with 20-30 adults AND 20-30 kids. it can be tough to keep your turnover rate of students to be level and not fluctuate like mad. granted that you COULD do that, if your trying to run a business and put bread on the table with it, it can be taxing. its much easier to make a contract and say “dont join if you dont like it” this way, you KNOW the people training at your facility are good for so much money.
it sucks having to turn people into walking numbers but thats the game of a financially lucrative business that rely’s on long term client relationships.
a lot of contracts will keep the students there, or the cash coming. thats the ups and downs dealing with a business of any nature.
i would like to take this time to point out the fact im glad im just a student and not running a school. oi, talk about a head ache 
TenTigers
Having memberships, it sounds like your kwoon is more of a club then what is generally thought of as a school. I think those are two different ballgames. And I know the kind of students you are talking about. I think the fact that they come back shows that they want to train. I’d guess that the off-time time is because of career, school, or other obligations. I think this is a fact of modern life that martial artists have to deal with.
[QUOTE=The Xia;758686]I think you are talking about something else. Like if the student doesn’t want to pay because he didn’t attend classes. Is that what you are saying? If so, that problem is solved by collecting payment at the beginning of the month. If he doesn’t show up for classes that month, you still get paid.[/QUOTE]
yea, but in my case I have a number of people who don’t get that when it’s the ‘1st’ of the month, it’s time to pay for the classes they come to or bring their kids too.
I’ve got a ***** of a situation with a parent…he’s been 5-10 days late with tuition for over 6 months now…i feel like I’ve got to tell him that Johnny can’t come to class till he gets the tuition, and late fees, caught up. I hate it for the kid but I’ve done everything but beat this guy in the head with a stick. the last two months, he’s not returned calls or anything.
Set 'em up on an automatic withdraw, and you shouldn’t have to worry about collecting again. 
[QUOTE=The Xia;758697]Having memberships, it sounds like your kwoon is more of a club then what is generally thought of as a school. I think those are two different ballgames. And I know the kind of students you are talking about. I think the fact that they come back shows that they want to train. I’d guess that the off-time time is because of career, school, or other obligations. I think this is a fact of modern life that martial artists have to deal with.[/QUOTE]
but, you don’t know. your hypothisizing when you aren’t running a school…unless you are and I’ve missed it along the way.
when a student bails I pretty much know the reason…and generally, I try to give them much more face than I get in return.
if they bail because they don’t like what I’m doing or how I’m teaching, I try to follow up to see if I can help them find a place that fits them…but those are rare That’s not a comment on my ability, just that, at least IME, people tend to bail because:
#1 really learning a martial skill is harder than the fantasy.
#2 Ego. I’ve seen this manifest itself in many, many ways. Lately I’ve been dealing with people who are finding themselves threatened by newer students with more base attributes who catch on quicker. I hate trying to play ‘guan psychoanalyst’ when all I want to say is ‘suck it up, train as hard as you can and be happy for your successes and don’t judge yourself by anyone else’s accomplishments’
[QUOTE=SanHeChuan;758739]Set 'em up on an automatic withdraw, and you should have to worry about collecting again. [/QUOTE]
right…but, at the moment, I can’t even get that done because the fees would take me even more below breaking even…a lot of people are late but I usually collect everything by the 10th and repay myself for whatever I’ve put in out of pocket.
This is a very interesting discussion. I’ve never heard such a level of entitlement expressed by math instructors, English instructors, etc.
I can just imagine a Physics professor berating me after I decided to drop his class: Guess he wasn’t man enough for thermodynamics. LOL.