Ok, I want to establish ground rules on this one, not that I can enforce them, but still…
I don’t want to see the really BIG “if’s,” here:
IF they didn’t have gloves…
IF they allowed small joint manipulation…
IF they allowed pressure point attacks… (which Pride does, but I digress), etc.
I’d like to limit this to the way things actually ARE.
With the rules of say, a UFC or Pride type event, AS THEY STAND NOW, should good Kung Fu be successful in the ring?
Not would it, but should it? Different question. One is a question of training methods, techniques, etc. The other is a “fundamental,” question.
I do not believe ring fighting is the end all be all. It is not necessary to be a great ring fighter to be a great fighter, so let’s get that out of the way right now.
However, SHOULD a great Kung Fu fighter, who by all accounts would kick ass on the streets, be able to kick ass in the ring?
I understand that style to style answers might vary.
I think you said it. A great kung fu FIGHTER (and not kung fu) should do well in an event, provided he trained for that event.
Now, let me turn the question around for you. Should a Martial Art (you know: way of life, fighting skills, blah, blah, blah…) be judged effective by a sporting event?
Well kung fu hasn’t had a pretty history in NHB tournaments. So if sporting events ARE a good judgement of a style’s effectiveness then that would make kung fu a shetty style.
Rolls, the only thing deemed ineffective through trial and error is your brain.
Now back the topic, I think good kung fu should hold up in the ring. You just have to train for it as would any other athlete. I don’t buy into the whole “this is a ring sport, not true martial arts” thing. It’s a combat sport. H3ll no you can’t poke out eyes or manipulate small joints, but there is more to kung fu than that. I think the biggest difference is training. If you train MMA but don’t train for the ring, IE you don’t do all the cardio work that you should, or get into the proper shape, you’re going to gas early in the fight. Like anything els, there is a certain type of training that should be followed for ring fighting, which I would venture to say that many kung fu schools don’t adhere to - because they don’t have to. Their goal is not to fight at all, let alone in a ring. If you train a kung fu stylist for the ring, there is no reason why they wouldn’t win. I don’t keep up with Don Wilson, but wasn’t his training mainly kung fu and some TKD? He trained for the ring and was sucessfull because he did.
Yes and no. Yes it should. No, as you need to understand that a ground game is a must in modern times. That being said, I’m back in BJJ starting next week. You can look for my NHB premiere somewhere toward the end of this year beginning of 2003.
You’re right, to a certain extent. It’s not kung fu that’s ineffective, but rather the person using it.
Dude, most people don’t want to dedicate the time it takes to develop real kungfu skills. Not only that, but half the people teaching it don’t have the first clue as to what real kungfu is. They train ****ty and they don’t fight. Without testing your skills how are you going to know what works for you and what doesn’t.
The first “Kung Fu” school I signed up to was garbage, but I thought it was the shhhh. I’m just glad I got rocked once or twice and woke up to smell the coffee. I just began training in Kung Fu again and can tell you that it’s nothing like I was learning before. I’ve even had a go with a couple of my friends that are dirty street fighters and could have dropped them more than once had I wanted to. Don’t get me wrong I ate my share of punches and kicks, but I noticed the difference in my fighting skill and mindset.
You can study the best system in the world, but if you don’t train it properly and put your skills through the test then you’ll never learn to fight.
Merryprankster - UFC rules? I say hell yeah! I good kungfu stylist should be able to whoop as$ in the UFC. How much closer to real life can a tourney get?
Ralek define “repeatedly”. I hope you are not baseing your opinion on cage matches. If so, then what does that say about boxing? They have some boxers in UFC. But they get their ass’s handed to them. But if Mike Tyson or someone of his caliber stepped in the ring, they would be the one handing out ass’s.
Good kung fu should have:
Limb breaking, eye striking, throat striking, weapons weapons and more weapons, multiple opponent fighting, groin ripping, maiming strikes, deadly strikes, ear rupturing strikes, knowledge of pressure points and meridians and medicine…
Funny, I see none of that in the ring no matter what “the ring” gets defined as.
So, no. Ring fighting has no relationship to good kung fu. Take all that away, and your good kung fu gets stripped down to simple sport brawling.
It shouldnt matter…within the confines of the rules and everything being equal it shouldn’t matter what style the person trains in, provided they supplement their regular training by training specifically for the rules of the event.
All that crap about “our moves are too deadly” is total BS…If you can land moves like that then you should have no trouble landing basic strikes and applying basic holds.
Its that stupid “our moves are too deadly” attitude that gives all traditional stylists a bad name.
On the same topic tho, I do think that NHB fightin and real fighting is totally different because then you have X number of factors which change things up, biggest of course is weapons which is a completely different ball game…
Bottom line is(and this has been said before but should be re-iterated)…anyone should be able to put on a good showing regardless of style so long as they train for the event.
Limb breaking, eye striking, throat striking, weapons weapons and more weapons, multiple opponent fighting, groin ripping, maiming strikes, deadly strikes, ear rupturing strikes, knowledge of pressure points and meridians and medicine…
here come the kung fu is too deadly for the ring type arguements.
If you can’t handle one opponent why even worry about multiples.
If you can’t connect with basic techniques like punches and open hand strikes good luck with the more complicated “deadly” techniques, nevermind what would happen to you in the legal system for using such things in a simple street fight.