Shaw Bros Quote (From other thread on CLF)

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Southern Chinese Kung Fu
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Originally Posted by WinterPalm View Post

I would expect it to look like choy le fut!
CLF train all that stuff and this guy looks like he is just boxing.

[I]LKFMDC:

I sat back quietly waiting for exactly a quote like this

To Frank, this is a great example of CLF beating Muay Thai

To another person it’s “just” either “kickboxing” or “boxing”

As long as TCMA people think that Chinese martial arts in application will look like a Shaw Brother’s movie, the art will continue to stagnate… and degenerate[/I]

I wasn’t suggesting at all, that it should look like a movie. But various styles have specific ways of moving and fighting that, even with gloves, should be noticable. To me, this fellow is probably from a school that has forms on one hand, and then then a fighting class on the other that does not involve application of form techniques. I have seen full contact clips that showcase a style, and do not look like a movie, as anyone who does or has done TCMA knows sparring and application does not look like a movie.

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[QUOTE=WinterPalm;766296]I wasn’t suggesting at all, that it should look like a movie. But various styles have specific ways of moving and fighting that, even with gloves, should be noticable. To me, this fellow is probably from a school that has forms on one hand, and then then a fighting class on the other that does not involve application of form techniques. I have seen full contact clips that showcase a style, and do not look like a movie, as anyone who does or has done TCMA knows sparring and application does not look like a movie.[/QUOTE]

When people fight at medium to higher levels against other relatively skilled opponents, their fighting will look more like “just kickboxing” or “just boxing”, rather than some specific stylized verzion of fighting.

If you only fight scrubs, then you can fight with a more CLF-type “windmilling” punching. This type of fighting can work against people who are not that skilled.

Things change, however, when you start to fight higher level guys. You then have to strike with a tighter structure.

This clip is a perfect example of that.

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bin kahp biu jong

or

jab, overhand, uppercut

the same?

or different?

is it so choih? or is it a hook?

how can a person who has never done boxing throw boxing punches? A person who has never done kickboxing “revert” to kickboxing?

Was it boxing and some clinchwork from Muay Thai? Or was it all Choy Lay Fut because that is what the person studied?

Should it all look different or does it all look the same?

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[QUOTE=Knifefighter;766302]

If you only fight scrubs[/QUOTE]

LOL

dude thats freakin hilarious…scrubs hahaha

sorry, dont know why i thought that was so funny…

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I thought choy lee fut used forearm strikes and had specific approaches to fighting.
And no, I don’t think it all looks the same at all. If you fight that way then I guess that it will.

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[QUOTE=WinterPalm;766322]I thought choy lee fut used forearm strikes and had specific approaches to fighting.
And no, I don’t think it all looks the same at all. If you fight that way then I guess that it will.[/QUOTE]

People who attempt to fight skilled fighters quickly learn that forearm strikes don’t work against those who are skilled. That is why higher level fighting all looks like kickboxing. That is the stufff that works against other trained fighters.

There are sound biomechanical reasons as to why a “kickboxing” type of fighting is most efficient.

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[QUOTE=WinterPalm;766322]

I thought choy lee fut used forearm strikes
[/QUOTE]

And other arts do not? Lama, Pak Hok, Hung Ga, Hung Fut, Jow Ga, etc…

[QUOTE=WinterPalm;766322]

and had specific approaches to fighting.

[/QUOTE]

As long as people have two arms, two legs, a head and their joint turn in the same directions, how differenct can the approaches to fighting really be?

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WinterPalm

“..But various styles have specific ways of moving and fighting..” you are correct. What you are seeing is not the effect of sloppy students, rather, the cause being sloppy or inept teaching.

nospam
:cool:

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[QUOTE=Knifefighter;766326]People who attempt to fight skilled fighters quickly learn that forearm strikes don’t work against those who are skilled. [/QUOTE]

Thats complete nonsense. Sure you cant do forearm strikes in a competition arena, but perhaps you don’t completely understand exactly what ‘forearm’ strikes is all about. I assure you, I have seen plenty of “Skilled” fighters use exactly that against other “ Skilled” fighters.

Also, please remind us why you still post on a TCMA message forum if you are so clearly much more evolved and enlightened about fighting, than the rest of us who actually enjoy traditional Chinese martial culture? :cool:

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[QUOTE=Knifefighter;766326]People who attempt to fight skilled fighters quickly learn that forearm strikes don’t work against those who are skilled. That is why higher level fighting all looks like kickboxing. That is the stufff that works against other trained fighters.

There are sound biomechanical reasons as to why a “kickboxing” type of fighting is most efficient.[/QUOTE]

I’m very curious to see what biomechanical reasons there are.

I think more often it is what works against other trained fighters because that is what everyone does.

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[QUOTE=lkfmdc;766327]And other arts do not? Lama, Pak Hok, Hung Ga, Hung Fut, Jow Ga, etc…

As long as people have two arms, two legs, a head and their joint turn in the same directions, how differenct can the approaches to fighting really be?[/QUOTE]

Yes, many arts have forearm strikes. I just notice how choy lee fut stands out very much from other arts in their waist movement in striking, so I expected to see it in the fighting.

Thanks for the Bruce Lee quip! However, you know it’s not true. Compare Royce Gracie to Chuck Liddell if you want to see two very different approaches to fighting. Or even the striking of De La Hoya Vs Mayweather Jr. It’s very evident that there are different ways of fighting.

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winter palm,

i think its also how well you understand the system you learn.

a smart person who spars will admit that he tried something and i didn’t work. so he either modifies it to work, or throws it away.

but i think it all boils down to is how well do you know the system you are learning?

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I know the system I am learning, as well as I know it. Nothing more and nother less. I know that to say I have learned very little would be a disservice to the time my Sifu has put in, but to say I am anywhere near thorough in my knowledge would be a lie.
When I spar near the level of full contact, many of the techniques that I’ve been taught come out. The strategy and movement I would say are there as well as the set-ups and counters. These are all from our system even if it is full-contact sparring with small gloves on.

I could be wrong about that clip, but I figured someone claiming to do a certain style would fight with it. Otherwise, it would probably be simpler to join a boxing school.

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[QUOTE=WinterPalm;766549]

Thanks for the Bruce Lee quip! However, you know it’s not true.

[/QUOTE]

I’m more than open to a discussion, but let’s qualify. Everyone has an opinion, but not all opinions are equal.

I train fighters. I have a lot of success doing so. In different formats. I’ve trained people who hold titles in San Da, Muay Thai, Boxing and MMA.

If you’re going to tell me “it’s not true” PROVE IT. Make an argument and back it up with facts and examples. And qualify what your training background and experience is.

[QUOTE=WinterPalm;766549]

Compare Royce Gracie to Chuck Liddell if you want to see two very different approaches to fighting.

[/QUOTE]

Royce is trying to get a clinch and a takedown in order to work on the ground. Everyone who has the same STRATEGY has the same tactics.

Is Royce’s fighting different from other grapplers or the same?

Chuck is trying to remain standing and strike. He happens to be a sloppy striker who has lived a long time off his naturally heavy hands. IE there are BETTER strikers than him, but all strikers in that format use the same tools, just some better than others

[QUOTE=WinterPalm;766549]

Or even the striking of De La Hoya Vs Mayweather Jr. It’s very evident that there are different ways of fighting.

[/QUOTE]

The striking of De Lay Hoya and Mayweather? They are both using BOXING! PUnches using body leverage, combinations, head movement and clinching designed to stall as opposed to strike or takedown

YOu aren’t doing very well at all with this, you don’t seem to understand the difference between STRATEGY, TACTICS and TECHNIQUE

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STRATEGY, TACTICS and TECHNIQUE is what you just said.

Above you said APPROACHES, I see strategy, tactics and techniques as all part of an approach. How do you approach fighting? That is the question.

For sport fighting, yes, as it becomes more streamlined there will be strong similarity in these things but that is training for a specfic format. Way back, the UFC fanboys talked about spinning kicks being ineffective, many now use them well.
That is one example of close-mindedness being encountered.

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Let’s try this one last time, let’s try it a different way

I quote you

“styles have specific ways of moving and fighting”

Yet at the same time you bring up De La Hoya vs Maywhether and say they are different?

I’m sorry, I must have missed where De La Hoya is Hung Ga and Maywhether is Bak Mei :rolleyes:

Which is it? Are they all the same or are they all different?

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My point was to show YOU that two people within the same style and ruleset, boxing for this example, can display different characteristics or ways of using the style. If this is present in one particular style, then why can’t their be differences between styles? That is what I don’t get…yes we have two legs and two hands but how I use them and how the next guy use them could be very different…therefore, there are different styles…which ultimately come down to personal expressions of one’s own internalization…which is what I believe Bruce Lee was going with his quote.

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[QUOTE=lkfmdc;766562]
YOu aren’t doing very well at all with this, you don’t seem to understand the difference between STRATEGY, TACTICS and TECHNIQUE[/QUOTE]

I was going to ask you the same thing

[QUOTE=lkfmdc;766562]Everyone who has the same STRATEGY has the same tactics.
[/QUOTE]

What sort of bollocks is that? might wanna check the dictionary