in the wsl method we keep the weight evenly over the feet. Too much on the toes and you fall forward, too much on the heels and you can be pushed back. We keep the heel on the ground as the weight that is created by any impact will be transfered into the heel. The tst demo is normally done with toni bartikos he is the massive guy with the black hair. The idea is to show how the weight is transfered into the back leg if the waist is forward. This is an extreme example with the front leg not being used. While it is a trick it shows the idea. And it seems that every now and then we get people that don’t seen to want to ask questions but to show how much they know. I put this down to two things. 1. You are starting a school or doing videos so this is the way you advertise. 2. You simply want people to know you are not a child or person with no credibility and dont want to start a debate with a question through insecurity of how others will think. Point is when threads start with the ‘this is what is right and no one else knows what i know’ people tend to dismiss it. Hence why i hadn’t even bothered to read the thread until people had posted for a while…
[QUOTE=bennyvt;964468]… The tst demo is normally done with toni bartikos he is the massive guy with the black hair. The idea is to show how the weight is transfered into the back leg if the waist is forward. This is an extreme example with the front leg not being used. While it is a trick it shows the idea…[/QUOTE]
The body’s weight is obviously on the one supporting leg when you lift the other off the ground - there’s no option… unless you levitate.
It’s a pretty bad demo if it’s meant to show the idea of weight redistribution. Plus the gimmick of having the pushing guy appear as he’s exerting full force (even with help from another guy behind him) is a circus trick as the position he’s adopting doesn’t allow for much force generation. Any real force would throw TST on the ground (“overturning”).
Is there a video on youtube of some guy not able to be pushed while standing on one leg?
Can someone post it…
[QUOTE=Frost;964446]do you actually really believe boxing generates its power from muscles and not shifting its body weight…:([/QUOTE]
it does…but less than others…but what im really talking about the overall focus. its like sanjuro and i talked about in another thread the difference between external and internal arts many times is not because one trains or possesses qualities not existing in the other–its the focus
if you have never trained in both or seen both i can see how its hard to udnerstand
[QUOTE=Pacman;964580]it does…but less than others…but what im really talking about the overall focus. its like sanjuro and i talked about in another thread the difference between external and internal arts many times is not because one trains or possesses qualities not existing in the other–its the focus
if you have never trained in both or seen both i can see how its hard to udnerstand[/QUOTE]
Agreed, in this regard:
It is far easier to SEE rooting in Tai chi, bagua and Aikido, than in Boxing.
Simply because they focus on the specific quality to the ninth degree.
Boxing, wresrlting and judo all have “rooting” in a more dynamic way that is far harder to “see”.
But its stiil there.
Like I mentioned before, rooting is very style specific.
The root of WC, for example, will not sever you in Judo or vice-versa.
On a side note, look at a top level boxer and you will see more relaxed striking and in a practical way, that many Taiji people would kill for.
didnt you say you trained in tai chi frost and bak mei and dragons style as well?
you should have seen the difference when you saw jing power demonstrated as a result of rooting
it makes it hard to move you as well i dont know if its on youtube but i recall shi goulin demonstrating rooting power by having a group of people holding a tree and running full force and ramming him in the abdomen with it and they could barely move him back because of his root
[QUOTE=goju;964587]didnt you say you trained in tai chi frost and bak mei and dragons style as well?
you should have seen the difference when you saw jing power demonstrated as a result of rooting
it makes it hard to move you as well i dont know if its on youtube but i recall shi goulin demonstrating rooting power by having a group of people holding a tree and running full force and ramming him in the abdomen with it and they could barely move him back because of his root[/QUOTE]
see this all the time in strongman competitions and demos, even the “fat guy” demos taking a cannon ball in the breadbasket.
Tons of it in aikido.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;964589]see this all the time in strongman competitions and demos, even the “fat guy” demos taking a cannon ball in the breadbasket.
Tons of it in aikido.[/QUOTE]
fat guy cannon ball is because his fat absorbs the impact like a cushion
tyson looked pretty grounded when doing his famous uppercutt. My point was that the one leg thing is just a trick. When done properly it shows that when the waist is either inline or past the back foot the force pushes you over as its like just standing on the front leg. If the waist is infront of the foot then the force is pushed through your hands, waist then foot.
[QUOTE=goju;964587]didnt you say you trained in tai chi frost and bak mei and dragons style as well?
you should have seen the difference when you saw jing power demonstrated as a result of rooting
it makes it hard to move you as well i dont know if its on youtube but i recall shi goulin demonstrating rooting power by having a group of people holding a tree and running full force and ramming him in the abdomen with it and they could barely move him back because of his root[/QUOTE]
Yes I did, I have done rooting so being pushed over is hard, I have done short range power and am able to break wood with short range or no range strikes, I have seen it and done it in demo’s, and that’s it, i never seen it in a fight, now I have met little judo guys that feel like a brick house when you try to move them in actual competitions, that’s root
I have seen boxers KO guys from inches away with short power strikes, that’s jing.
As sanuro ronin said you see these demo’s in strong man comps, circus shows etc, they are demo’s and tricks nothing more
[QUOTE=Pacman;964604]fat guy cannon ball is because his fat absorbs the impact like a cushion[/QUOTE]
Missing the point eh?
They are still rooted or are you gonna tell me that they just stand there, on their tippy toes and take a cannon ball and don’t budge?
How different is rooting from when a boxer plants his feet(sit down on punches) to get power?
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;964723]Missing the point eh?
They are still rooted or are you gonna tell me that they just stand there, on their tippy toes and take a cannon ball and don’t budge?[/QUOTE]
im saying that the cannon ball demo is about how the guys stomach is so fat it absorbs the blow. it is not a demonstration of how “rooted” he is
that is why you dont see that demo with a skinny guy
can you explain what you mean when you say boxing, wrestling etc etc have rooting in a more dynamic way? do you think WC is not dynamic because of some of the vids on youtube of WC practitioners standing around like a potted plant in a pigeon toed stance during a fight? that is not wc. that is an example of their teachers not understanding the difference between training and real application
[QUOTE=Pacman;964837]im saying that the cannon ball demo is about how the guys stomach is so fat it absorbs the blow. it is not a demonstration of how “rooted” he is
that is why you dont see that demo with a skinny guy
[/QUOTE]
Certainly having a big gut helps to absorb the blow (an advantage over the skinny guys), but that alone is not enough to diffuse the cannon ball. The force has to be dissipated into the ground otherwise you would see him being pushed back. That’s proof of his “rooting”.
[QUOTE=Pacman;964837]
can you explain what you mean when you say boxing, wrestling etc etc have rooting in a more dynamic way? [/QUOTE]
Its plain to see that in boxing/wrestling the feet is more active. Compare to other kung fu styles, WC’s footwork seems lacking. But if the story about WC being develop on the red junks is true, then that’s the reason why. There’s narrow passages on those junks to take into account and course the swaying on open water.
[QUOTE=dirtyrat;964882]Its plain to see that in boxing/wrestling the feet is more active. Compare to other kung fu styles, WC’s footwork seems lacking. But if the story about WC being develop on the red junks is true, then that’s the reason why. There’s narrow passages on those junks to take into account and course the swaying on open water.[/QUOTE]
footwork is really dependent on the teacher. its goes the same for boxing too. some people have more footwork than others.
with WC there is no rule prohibiting or encouraging the footwork that you can do. that is a personal style that is influenced by your teacher
i know that in youtube you see people like emin boztepe being immobile in a pigeon toed stance or you see this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV4Jq6H9pEQ
thats just their personal style or maybe how his lineage does things. it does not speak for all WC practitioners or teachers
[QUOTE=Pacman;964837]
can you explain what you mean when you say boxing, wrestling etc etc have rooting in a more dynamic way? do you think WC is not dynamic because of some of the vids on youtube of WC practitioners standing around like a potted plant in a pigeon toed stance during a fight? that is not wc. that is an example of their teachers not understanding the difference between training and real application[/QUOTE]
When was the last rime you saw a boxing coach or a wrestling coach teach “rooting”? or have the trainee in a “stance” ?
The rooting that is taught is always taught in a dynamic way, ie: In Action.
i see. i thought you were talking about the application and not the training
fyi, learning the stance statically is just the first stage. next stages are more ‘dynamic’
[QUOTE=Pacman;965265]i see. i thought you were talking about the application and not the training
fyi, learning the stance statically is just the first stage. next stages are more ‘dynamic’[/QUOTE]
Why bother learning it “statically” ?
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;965269]Why bother learning it “statically” ?[/QUOTE]
i really cant speak for all WC schools. not everyone teaches things the same.
i really also disagree with the premise of ‘rooting’ in wrestling. i wrestled for four years in high school and the internal style concept of ‘rooting’ is no where to be found in wrestling.
i am no pro boxer, but i did box for almost a year before starting WC and the rooting concept was no where to be found either. ‘root’ is not as simple as planting your foot before throwing a punch