So. I don’t really get it. Can someone spell it out for me plain and simple?
Why are some WC folk called glorified kickboxers?
Is it because they don’t practice WC exclusively?
Is it because when they spar, it looks like something like kickboxing?
Can someone define the slogan?
Cheers.
excellent question
I cant wait to hear some of responses…very good question!
I think sanjuro_ronin is the most qualified to answer that.
My assumption was that it was because when people put big gloves on they tend not to be close range infighters but rather longer range looking ‘kickboxers’ yes.
People that dont fight how they or VT trains essentially.
I kinda agree with the term though, for those that do use actions completely foreign to VT in sparring. For example the use of the extremely round side kick of KB which is mechanically different from VT side kicks… Like the waist useage and contact point of the kick etc (IMO that is 
)
On the other hand IMO some dont deserve the term and are only painted with that brush by those who think VT doesnt have or cant operate in or at longer ranges. Those that think a parry is not Pak sao or Bi Jong cant be a head guard with gloves etc…
People that think in terms of shapes… its very open to interpritation somewhat like VT LOL.
DREW
Great response, Drew.
Thanks, as usual!
Couch, I have little time for people who don’t do basic research before bothering the forum.
If you enter “Glorified Kickboxing” into Google, you will find out:
There does seem to be a great deal of interest, though little knowledge, of this rapidly expanding 21st century martial art. While not wanting to cast aspertions on sanjuro_ronin’s possible qualifications in the art, I feel that I have been called a “Glorified Kickboxer” often enough to claim some seniority in the art, and this feel I should do all I can to bring this much sopken about but little known martial art to the world. A short article will follow in the next day or two.
I may also write about Theoretical NonFighting, another fast growing 21st century martial art, for pretty much similar reasons.
That said, I would not want to discourage other scholars of these arts from making their own contributions, quite the reverse. After all, Glorified Kickboxing belongs to all humanity!
[QUOTE=couch;924276]So. I don’t really get it. Can someone spell it out for me plain and simple?
Why are some WC folk called glorified kickboxers?
Is it because they don’t practice WC exclusively?
Is it because when they spar, it looks like something like kickboxing?
Can someone define the slogan?
Cheers.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think the term " Glorified kick Boxers " is ment exclusively for WCers but anyone who trains in their particular art and can’t fight with it,and rely more or less on what appears to be Kick Boxing.
[QUOTE=stonecrusher69;924299]I don’t think the term " Glorified kick Boxers " is ment exclusively for WCers but anyone who trains in their particular art and can’t fight with it,and rely more or less on what appears to be Kick Boxing.[/QUOTE]
You beat me to it.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;924305]You beat me to it. :)[/QUOTE]
Opps!!! sorry Phil
[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;924288]I cant wait to hear some of responses…very good question!
I think sanjuro_ronin is the most qualified to answer that.[/QUOTE]
You don’t know how right you are! ;)
[QUOTE=stonecrusher69;924299]I don’t think the term " Glorified kick Boxers " is ment exclusively for WCers but anyone who trains in their particular art and can’t fight with it,and rely more or less on what appears to be Kick Boxing.[/QUOTE]
Correct, except for the fact that many of the Glorified Kickboxers here in this forum claim to be kung fu fighting while hopping around like boxers and or TKD-ists and using basic kickboxing techniques. Some have even gone further and implied that this was some kind of an “improved” kung fu…lol.
Well I got to give it to this forum, it really is full of laughs.
“Glorified Kickboxer”
Another example of the human need to put a label upon someone else or group of individuals. Why do people put labels upon one another? Simple, it’s ego. The ego, or false self image, needs to build a seperation between people, it also needs to feel superior to other’s, so it dehumanizes people by labelling them, thereby making them no more signifigant than a billboard or commercial you see on TV, you recognize that it is there, think about it for a second or two, then disgard the thought of it, unless of course it catches your eye and allows the ego to become more powerful.
Unfortunately the majority of the people in the world identify their ego as who they really are, therefore the idea of being threatened by whomever they meet is high. This is why there cannot be anything but arguing whenever there is a thread on this forum, as sooner or later someone’s self image (ego) is going to feel threatened so they attack by projecting themselves as stronger, more this or that, and anyone else opposed to them as beneath them or some other weaker form than they are.
The problem with the internet is that it is very impersonal, unless you are always aware of the person on the other end of the keyboard, they too are human, just like me, with strengths/weaknesses and the ability to improve themselves if they choose too. It all depends on how you view yourself and what you really are. If you view yourself as a part of a greater whole, rather than a individual person, seperate from everything in this vast universe, you will accept the tiny differences and without being threatened by them.
James
[QUOTE=couch;924276]So. I don’t really get it. Can someone spell it out for me plain and simple?
Why are some WC folk called glorified kickboxers?[/quote]
I call any so called kung fu man who mixes and mashes his kung fu with other irrelevant arts and then gets in the ring and calls what he does “kung fu” or even “improved” or “functional”, etc. kung fu.
It is because how they don’t practice WC (or kung fu) exclusively.
Well some of them would “jump” around like boxers, throwing wide hooks (“because it works”) and then would use some chain punching and then refer to what they did as kung fu or even “functional” kung fu.
Unfortunately the term defines most (NOT ALL) of the kung fu “experts” in this forum.
Don’t thank me, thank the Glorified Kickboxers who inspired the “legend”.
[QUOTE=couch;924276]So. I don’t really get it. Can someone spell it out for me plain and simple?
Why are some WC folk called glorified kickboxers?
Is it because they don’t practice WC exclusively?
Is it because when they spar, it looks like something like kickboxing?
Can someone define the slogan?
Cheers.[/QUOTE]
It is as the great Two Year Grandmaster decrees!!!
[QUOTE=couch;924276]So. I don’t really get it. Can someone spell it out for me plain and simple?
Why are some WC folk called glorified kickboxers?
Is it because they don’t practice WC exclusively?
Is it because when they spar, it looks like something like kickboxing?
Can someone define the slogan?
Cheers.[/QUOTE]
Its a valid question.
Those that have fought know the answer:
The Ruleset of a match will dictate the “look” of that match.
Vale Tudo matched don’t look like MT matches and WTF TKD matches don’t look like K-1 matches.
Now, one can ask why is it that when you see MA in a full contact environment with rules or limited rules, that it tends to look like “kick boxing”?
Well, if you punch, you “box” and if you kick and punch you “kick box”, but that is to obvious an answer.
Fact is, under real pressure, the human body will revert to its most “effective” mode of fighting.
That is why, regardless of the skill of a WC fighter, when you see him fight full contact, on the surface it will look like “kickboxing” to a certain degree.
Unless there is a huge skill descrepency between fighters.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;924405]Its a valid question.
Those that have fought know the answer:
The Ruleset of a match will dictate the “look” of that match.
Vale Tudo matched don’t look like MT matches and WTF TKD matches don’t look like K-1 matches.
Now, one can ask why is it that when you see MA in a full contact environment with rules or limited rules, that it tends to look like “kick boxing”?
Well, if you punch, you “box” and if you kick and punch you “kick box”, but that is to obvious an answer.
Fact is, under real pressure, the human body will revert to its most “effective” mode of fighting.
That is why, regardless of the skill of a WC fighter, when you see him fight full contact, on the surface it will look like “kickboxing” to a certain degree.
Unless there is a huge skill descrepency between fighters.[/QUOTE]
Very insightful observations.
Yes, the human body when under high levels of stress and moving at 100% (power/speed) moves in certain ways (you simply can’t move in other ways and "keep up"with an opponent). You have to experience this to appreciate it.
I would add is that the “range"or 'stage” or whateveryou want to call it – whether in stand-up/outside/free-movement or inside/clinch/attached or ground – changes the “demands” placed on us (since different combative factors come into play) and so will change how we naturally move at 100% in those different situations. On the outside/free-movement, fighting will end up looking like kickboxing since, as you point out, this is how our body naturally moves at 100% in that “range”. It looks like boxing/kickboxing since boxers/kickboxers have spent so much time in that range being pressured and moving at 100% that they have come to most closely “embody” that way of movement. Regardless of your style or art, if you fight at that range and your opponent pressures you (and you move all out), it will “look” like kickboxing.
This also applies to clinch and ground.
The consequences of this I think extremely important. If you start with the fight – what it is really going to be like and how you are really going to NEED to move, then you will realize that if you fight on the outside it will end up “looking” like kickboxing. So, if you want to fight on the outside, doesn’t it make sense to train like you will endup fighting? In other words, to practice some form of kickboxing if you want to fight on the outside.
Similarly, if you want to fight on the ground, knowing it will end up looking like wrestling or BJJ, to practice some form of submission grappling?
[QUOTE=anerlich;924296]Couch, I have little time for people who don’t do basic research before bothering the forum.
That said, I would not want to discourage other scholars of these arts from making their own contributions, quite the reverse. After all, Glorified Kickboxing belongs to all humanity![/QUOTE]
You cheeky bugger!!! LOL!!!
Very good everyone. This simple question could turn into a good discussion.
So we could say, in summary:
So a WC man who fights at a specific range (no different than a TKD’er trying to keep me at HIS/HER range) might resort to ‘boxing/kickboxing’ in fight/sparring match for a few reasons:
Best.
Have you ever seen a clip of a WC guy fighting full contact that looks like a typical WC demo?
[QUOTE=couch;924417]Very good everyone. This simple question could turn into a good discussion.
So we could say, in summary:
I think to just talk about tools ignores the “WHY” – which is that when we are highly stressed/pressured and NEED to move at 100% (power/speed) our bodies are going to move in certain ways. It’s like lifting a weight. If the weight is not too heavy, you can do it in all kinds of ways. You can “train” those ways using light weights. But when you go to lifit a weight close to your limit, you will find those ways won’t work and that your body will need to lift it a certain way (the way powerlifters do – why do powerlifters lift that way? becasue they have found from actually lifting weights at their max what works).
The ruleset typically determines the “range” – boxing’s rules don’t permit clinch or ground.
So a WC man who fights at a specific range (no different than a TKD’er trying to keep me at HIS/HER range) might resort to ‘boxing/kickboxing’ in fight/sparring match for a few reasons:
Best.
Or, they just haven’t trained to use their WCK tools in fighting.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;924418]Have you ever seen a clip of a WC guy fighting full contact that looks like a typical WC demo?[/QUOTE]
funny how no one ever answers that question directly…