This is going to be a tough road to travel - defending Benny Meng. LOL with this…because if a lot of other people formerly (or presently) still with Garrett Gee are doubting the character and motivations of Benny Meng by now…
they won’t be here (on this thread) doing the usual dance.
And LOL in thinking that if Meng bad-mouths literally everyone he’s ever learned from (or even heard of, LOL) in the wing chun world, at one time or another…
Everyone I meet that received H.F.Y. instruction from Benny Meng say it was different from what they received from G.M. Garrett Gee, so even the blind could see that Benny Meng was absorbing H.F.Y. material for creating his own Wing Chun style. I know the H.F.Y. people in the United States and Brazil had an issue with Benny Meng because they spent some thousands of dollars but were not instructed in H.F.Y.
But I think G.M. Garrett Gee was not the saint or the hero of that history because the people of Rio have been complaining of that for years. And although I dislike Benny Meng’s behaviour I must admit that he raises some good points on the site of his Brazilian Red Flower Boxers Society as for exemple the fact that H.F.Y. was created 10 years ago and that not even the oldest members have seen the entire system to date. These points echoe Terence’s, so it seems that now Benny Meng has joined the anti-H.F.Y. army, but it is wierd that he still teaches H.F.Y. as he did in his last seminar here in Fortaleza.
Chango your post was weird too, kind of “I have no arguments”.
Before jumping onto some “Garrett Gee made it all up” bandwagon just yet, or that Garrett Gee and (present) company are all messed up about this or that - keep in mind that it was primarily Benny Meng who wrote article-after-article in “KUNG FU” magazine back in the mid/late 1990’s…trying to convince the world that HFY was this incredible Shaolin wing chun system that has now re-emerged (with Garrett Gee)…
and that it had this incredible history with tons of important events, dates, names, places, etc.
Meng was the chief public relations man in this regard. Remember that! And now people should take Meng’s word for it that HFY (and the people behind it, ie.- Garrett Gee), aren’t all that they have been claiming to be?
Lots of shady business going on here, so don’t jump to any quick conclusions.
I agree with you. And I want to say that the history that G.M. Garrett Gee told us in Fortaleza was not the same that Benny Meng wrote on the magazines, on the Mastering Kung Fu book and on the internet. According to G.M. Garrett Gee H.F.Y. took shape in the 1800s with Hung Gun Biu.
I do not believe that H.F.Y. was created ten years ago and I do not know if the oldest students of G.M. Garrett Gee have seen the entire system, because the only H.F.Y. people I met were Benny Meng and G.M. Garrett Gee.
I just think it is interesting to see how quick Benny Meng changed his discourse after he broke up with the H.F.Y. family and I think it is also interesting to know that he and his representatives are still teaching Hung Fa Yi in spite of G.M. Garrett Gee.
This has always been Benny Meng’s mode of operation. He teaches what he learned from Moy Yat. Then he leaves Moy Yat (but still continues to teach what he learned from him)…until he meets Garrett Gee and begins training with him. And begins teaching what he learned from Gee. Now he leaves Garrett Gee but still teaches what he learned from him. And now he’s supposedly learning something else?
And all through these events he plays a game of bad-mouthing what he learned from his previous instructors (and the instructors themselves) privately (or semi-privately)…while putting on a smiling, “we’re all brothers in wing chun” face in public.
I see no point in giving this further energy! As I said before this does not help our system regardless if it is HFY etc…
I have no attachments! Once again it’s KFO business as usual this time it’s my Sifu last week it we Robert Chu Next week it will be someone else.
I did not know there is a anti-HFY Army!!
I’ll let it be known I’m not anti anything. I don’t speak for Sifu Meng but from my point of view he simply has called them as he has seen them. He’s not anti anything. I know I have a strong H.F.Y Identity. But I have to be the first to say that I have Wing/Weng Chun ID 1st!
I’m not going to drop what I know to be true simply becuase someone from one lineage does one thing or another. I’m a professional martial artist 1st and foremost! I learn martial arts out of love and as my way of life. Sifu Meng has given me this opportunity! Most important he has taught me to keep a open mind.
With out that I would have passed up the chance to meet and train with more then 15 different masters/ Grand masters of Wing chun a international wushu team coach and also Wu bin (the coach of Jet Li) 2 tae kwon do Olypians amoung others as well as some of you on this site.
My point Say what you want hash up rumors etc… the only people that care about this trash are those who set by the PC etc… and never really train anyway!
I know his words as well as mine will get twisted etc… So once again I’ll leave this thread just as I came to it!
This is my last contribution on this thread! So have fun fellas!!
[QUOTE=Hudson Li;944792] And although I dislike Benny Meng’s behaviour I must admit that he raises some good points on the site of his Brazilian Red Flower Boxers Society as for exemple the fact that H.F.Y. was created 10 years ago and that not even the oldest members have seen the entire system to date. These points echoe Terence’s, so it seems that now Benny Meng has joined the anti-H.F.Y. army, but it is wierd that he still teaches H.F.Y. as he did in his last seminar here in Fortaleza.
[/QUOTE]
I’m not part of any “anti-HFY army”. It’s not HFY per se that I don’t like. What I don’t like is the dishonesty and bullsh1t.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with someone, including Garrett, creating their own WCK currciulum. That’s precisely what all the so-called grandmaster’s in the past did: they took various teachings, synthesized them, and came up with what they thought was a “better” way of teaching WCK. Different textbooks for the same subject. That’s what Yip did, YKS did, Sum did, and even Andreas’ Chi Sim is his synthesis of several weng chun lineages. No BFD. So I don’t care if HFY is only 10 years old and was Garrett’s creation. Nor do I care if Cheung created TWC. The textbook isn’t the subject matter.
What bothers me is the dishonesty oftentimes attached to that, the lies, the stories, and the bullsh1t – and how people will defend these things with religious - bordering on pathological - zeal. Let’s just be honest about it all.
It’s funny but one HFY poster even uses this as his signature tag:
"Let me ask you this - where does Chu Sau Lei come from? Chu Sau Lei, since it’s named after a person that is still alive, can’t be very old - sounds a bit made up to me..
Alan Orr: It is made up. I have said this so many times."
Exactly. It’s Robert’s curriculum, essentially Yip Man-based but derived from his (Robert’s) experience. Robert has his own (slightly different) textbook. Alan doesn’t have a problem with that. Nor do I. Nor do we have a problem simply saying so.
“I don’t think there is anything wrong with someone, including Garrett, creating their own WCK currciulum. That’s precisely what all the so-called grandmaster’s in the past did: they took various teachings, synthesized them, and came up with what they thought was a ‘better’ way of teaching WCK. Different textbooks for the same subject. That’s what Yip did, YKS did, Sum did, and even Andreas’ Chi Sim is his synthesis of several weng chun lineages. No BFD. So I don’t care if HFY is only 10 years old and was Garrett’s creation. Nor do I care if Cheung created TWC. The textbook isn’t the subject matter.” (Chango)
***OKAY folks, here it is. And the “change” begins. Now we see a Benny Meng apologist on here saying that “there isn’t anything wrong with…Garrett Gee, creating their (his) own WCK curriculum.”
Cute choice of words, huh? :rolleyes:
And the self-serving, opportunist, stab-everybody-in-the-back-and-continue-on-your-way agenda continues…
[QUOTE=Hudson Li;944797]I agree with you. And I want to say that the history that G.M. Garrett Gee told us in Fortaleza was not the same that Benny Meng wrote on the magazines, on the Mastering Kung Fu book and on the internet. According to G.M. Garrett Gee H.F.Y. took shape in the 1800s with Hung Gun Biu.
I do not believe that H.F.Y. was created ten years ago and I do not know if the oldest students of G.M. Garrett Gee have seen the entire system, because the only H.F.Y. people I met were Benny Meng and G.M. Garrett Gee.
[/QUOTE]
Do you think that Garrett did not know what was written in the book co-authored by him or that he didn’t know what Benny wrote in articles and the internet? Was he just kept in the dark as to all this? If not, why did he not do something about it?
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;944804]“I don’t think there is anything wrong with someone, including Garrett, creating their own WCK currciulum. That’s precisely what all the so-called grandmaster’s in the past did: they took various teachings, synthesized them, and came up with what they thought was a ‘better’ way of teaching WCK. Different textbooks for the same subject. That’s what Yip did, YKS did, Sum did, and even Andreas’ Chi Sim is his synthesis of several weng chun lineages. No BFD. So I don’t care if HFY is only 10 years old and was Garrett’s creation. Nor do I care if Cheung created TWC. The textbook isn’t the subject matter.” (Chango)
***OKAY folks, here it is. And the “change” begins. Now we see a Benny Meng apologist on here saying that “there isn’t anything wrong with…Garrett Gee, creating their (his) own WCK curriculum.”
Cute choice of words, huh? :rolleyes:
And the self-serving, opportunist, stab-everybody-in-the-back-and-continue-on-your-way agenda continues.[/QUOTE]
Victor, that was not Chango who wrote this, but me (Terence). I am not a “Benny Meng apologist” though I don’t have the h@rd-on you apparently do for the guy.
The “important news” posted on the website regarding “the split” is obviously Alex’s way of trying to legitimize his lack of HFY certification. However, as Chango said prior, it is not the business of the public and best left alone.[/QUOTE]
Agree, It’s None of public business. Leave it alone
[QUOTE=duende;944727]4. WTF is up with Hudson Li and Li Hudson?? I suggest you two go fight it out amongst yourselves.
Sounds like a Mexican knife fight is in order if you ask me![/QUOTE]
Originally, that’s my intent…until everyone start jumping in!
[QUOTE=Hudson Li;944730]When Benny Meng and G.M. Garrett Gee gave the workshop in my hometown they said Alex Magnos was authorized to teach H.F.Y. If he lacked H.F.Y. why did the leaders say he could teach? I am feeling deceived now because I spent almost one year training with Alex and now Alex says H.F.Y. was made up by G.M. Garrett Gee and you say G.M. Gee authorized Alex to teach even not knowing H.F.Y.
I wonder what is being taught in Alex school now that he advertises H.F.Y., Chi Sim and Black Flag packed as Shaolin Wing Chun. He learned a lot of H.F.Y through the videos that Meng sent to him about all he trained in California the last 10 years, it is more than 10 videos, so Alex knows much more than the H.F.Y. people of Rio de Janeiro. Benny is here in Fortaleza and is correcting all the H.F.Y. that Alex learned by the videos. Because Alex knows more than anyone else here, he says he is the greatest authority in H.F.Y. in Latin America. Now he is learning Black Flag and Chi Sim the same way and Meng is correcting him personally so he will also be an authority in those styles.
And B.T.W. the free seminar that Benny Meng gave was crowded and he taught another bit of H.F.Y. so I believe there is something we do not know about his brake up uf the rest of the family, because he once said he would be the next Grand Master and he still teaches H.F.Y. even if the H.F.Y. people says he is not a real teacher. 10 years teaching and not a teacher, come on![/QUOTE]
It’s none of your xxxxxxx business !
[QUOTE=Hudson Li;944730]But it is true that Benny Meng badmouths everyone. The things he is saying here about the H.F.Y. family are horrible. But I heard him saying horrible things about the H.F.Y. family even before he broke up with G.M. Garrett Gee and I heard him saying horrible things about all his other teachers and partners.
And B.T.W. the video has H.F.Y. Siu Nin Tao too![/QUOTE]
The only think I heard about badmouthing someone, so far coming from the person with last name of CHU, as well as his trio; Pikachu and Stupid Lawyer. Whenever there’s a hurricane of ‘politics fights’, there are always those Chu’s Trio.
I haven’t found a single posting nor video of seminar from Meng that demonstrate that badmouthing…
I do not care if H.F.Y. was created by G.M. Gee either. The one thing that I do not understand is why Benny Meng created a history for H.F.Y. and published it everywhere but the H.F.Y. people from California did not fix the misinformation. I would ask that to G.M. Garrett Gee when he told us the different version of the H.F.Y. history but Alex told me to shut up and I did not want to be inconvenient.
And everyone who trained YM WC before commented that H.F.Y. had a lot of Y.M. W.C., at least the H.F.Y. that Benny Meng shew here in accordance with the curriculum of M.K.F. book.
And I cannot understand either why Benny Meng now publishes that H.F.Y. has no curriculum to date when it is known that Benny Meng himself was a co-writer of M.K.F. and we can find a complete H.F.Y. curriculum on that book. Maybe that was a curriculum that was made up by Benny Meng, with lots of Y.M. W.C. material, so that H.F.Y. as presented by M.K.F. was a creation of Benny Meng, and not G.M. Garret Gee?
B.T.W., so what that Robert Chu created his own system? What’s wrong with that?
It is weird that G.M. Garrett Gee said in my hometown that he is thankful for Robert Chu because of the information in C.W.C. book about H.F.Y.
So I do not understand why Benny Meng, his students and some H.F.Y. people talks bad about Robert Chu.
Well that was yesterday. Maybe today Meng thinks more of Robert Chu, because it might now serve a purpose. An opportunist purpose here in the summer of 09.
Yes, my business since I have trained that stuff for a year, so much energy and money involved, and those subjects have been revolved on this forum for a long time, so it is interesting to know what is really behind the H.F.Y. - Benny Meng - G.M. Garrett Gee scene.
[QUOTE=Hudson Li;944792]Everyone I meet that received H.F.Y. instruction from Benny Meng say it was different from what they received from G.M. Garrett Gee, so even the blind could see that Benny Meng was absorbing H.F.Y. material for creating his own Wing Chun style. I know the H.F.Y. people in the United States and Brazil had an issue with Benny Meng because they spent some thousands of dollars but were not instructed in H.F.Y.
But I think G.M. Garrett Gee was not the saint or the hero of that history because the people of Rio have been complaining of that for years. And although I dislike Benny Meng’s behaviour I must admit that he raises some good points on the site of his Brazilian Red Flower Boxers Society as for exemple the fact that H.F.Y. was created 10 years ago and that not even the oldest members have seen the entire system to date. These points echoe Terence’s, so it seems that now Benny Meng has joined the anti-H.F.Y. army, but it is wierd that he still teaches H.F.Y. as he did in his last seminar here in Fortaleza.
Chango your post was weird too, kind of “I have no arguments”.[/QUOTE]
First, I went to his website and all of his affiliated website, I don’t find a single word talking about Anti HFY Army… Are you trying to start something here…You are such a good provocator !!
second, Regardless what happend with benny, or hfy, it’s not your business !
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;944762]This is going to be a tough road to travel - defending Benny Meng. LOL with this…because if a lot of other people formerly (or presently) still with Garrett Gee are doubting the character and motivations of Benny Meng by now…
they won’t be here (on this thread) doing the usual dance.
And LOL in thinking that if Meng bad-mouths literally everyone he’s ever learned from (or even heard of, LOL) in the wing chun world, at one time or another…
then why would he not do this to Garrett Gee now?[/QUOTE]
With due all respect,
The only think I find about badmouthing someone, so far coming from the person with last name of CHU, as well as his trio; Pikachu and Stupid Lawyer. Whenever there’s a hurricane of ‘politics fights’, there are always those Chu’s Trio.
I haven’t found a single posting nor video of seminar from Meng that demonstrate that badmouthing…
[QUOTE=Hudson Li;944797]I agree with you. And I want to say that the history that G.M. Garrett Gee told us in Fortaleza was not the same that Benny Meng wrote on the magazines, on the Mastering Kung Fu book and on the internet. According to G.M. Garrett Gee H.F.Y. took shape in the 1800s with Hung Gun Biu.
I do not believe that H.F.Y. was created ten years ago and I do not know if the oldest students of G.M. Garrett Gee have seen the entire system, because the only H.F.Y. people I met were Benny Meng and G.M. Garrett Gee.
I just think it is interesting to see how quick Benny Meng changed his discourse after he broke up with the H.F.Y. family and I think it is also interesting to know that he and his representatives are still teaching Hung Fa Yi in spite of G.M. Garrett Gee.[/QUOTE]
Once again, it’s not your business. Mind your own !
