I was watching a thai boxing fight late last year on TV. The standard was profesional with a few less than half the guys fighting being from thailand.
I really couldnt see the differance between what they were doing and san da! One guy was putting in hip throws, catching kicks and sweeping and even grabbing leggs and throwing.
Its only a rule if its enforced.
Originally posted by 19thlohan
First I’m right about the thai boxing thing
No, you are wrong. The rules of Thai boxing make throws illegal. I’ve posted the official rules, all you can do is keep jumping up and down and claim you are right… that’s why you are both ignorant and dense…
Originally posted by 19thlohan claim that the rules of the world muay thai council (one orginization)are the official rules of all muay thai in general]
The World Muay Thai Council rules ARE the official rules of the sport… the fact you try to argue otherwise is more evidence you are ignorant and dense…
Might was well try to argue that “boxing” isn’t the WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO or NABF but instead is the rules you use in your matches in your back yard :rolleyes:
Originally posted by 19thlohan
I don’t except your word as law
[/B]
I posted the exact rules, the exact paragraphs and sub chapters and the text of the rules… and you just try and say “I’m right” with no evidence
:rolleyes:
The World MuayThai Council Rules (WMC, 1995)
section 18 (the section that outlines foul and strikes violating the rules)
rule 18.2 wrestling, back or arm locks or any similar judo or wrestling hold are illegal.
Board of Boxing Sport Rules (Sport Authority of Thailand, 2002)
rule 16.2 states that, throwing, back breaking, locking opponents arms, using Judo and wrestling techniquesare all violations of the rules.
The Amateur MuayThai Association of Thailand, the Federation of Amateur MuayThai of Asia, and the International Federation of MuayThai Amateurs rules for Amateur MuayThai competition include rule 17 b (2) a throw on an opponent, a back breaking manoeuvre, an intentional fall over, a judo or wrestling throw to an opponent are fouls.
The following judo and wrestling moves are fouls (Board of Boxing Sport, 2002):
a) A boxer wraps his leg around the leg of their opponent from the inside or the outside and forces their opponent to the floor.
b) A boxer locks an opponents neck and executes a hip to shoulder or hip throw
c) A boxer grabs their opponents hip in a waist lock and throws using a hip throw
d) A boxer grabs an opponents arm, turns and uses their calf and back of their thigh (hamstring muscle group) to sweep an opponent’s legs from under them.
e) A boxer grabs an opponent and falls backward to throw their opponent
f) A boxer attempts a rugby style tackle on the legs and waist of an opponent
g) A boxer grabs their opponents waist from behind, then, placing a leg between their opponent’s legs, pulls their opponent backwards over their leg and hip
h) A boxer grabs their opponent from below the waist, lifting and throwing
i) A boxer catches their opponents leg and uses their other arm to push them off balance while taking more than two steps
j) A boxer catches their opponents leg and uses their calf muscle to trip/sweep an opponent off their feet
k) A boxer ankle trips their opponent
l) A boxer leg sweeps their opponent using the calf or inside of their foot
m) A boxer traps their opponents arms in a waist lock, lifts their opponent and throws
n) A boxer grabs an opponent from behind, lifts and throws
o) A boxer grabs around an opponents lower spine and hyper-extends their back in a back breaking move
Go ahead, cite something that backs up YOUR argument…
What are the rules to san shou and san da?
LOL, for a guy who acted a minute ago like he knew everything, suddenly you seem, well, IGNORANT of a lot of the facts…
Originally posted by lkfmdc
LOL, for a guy who acted a minute ago like he knew everything, suddenly you seem, well, IGNORANT of a lot of the facts…
I asked to make a point and that was an awfully evasive answer for a guy who acted like he knew everything a minute ago.
to make what point, that you don’t know what you are talking about? Well, you’ve made that point already…
The rules of both San Shou and San Da allow almost every form of throw or takedown, the only two exceptions are you can’t drive someone onto their neck and you can’t throw them off the lei tai or out of the ring, compare those rules to the many restrictions on throwing in Muay Thai…
Just admit you are wrong, stop trying to act clever, it isn’t working…
Originally posted by lkfmdc
[B]to make what point, that you don’t know what you are talking about? Well, you’ve made that point already…
The rules of both San Shou and San Da allow almost every form of throw or takedown, the only two exceptions are you can’t drive someone onto their neck and you can’t throw them off the lei tai or out of the ring, compare those rules to the many restrictions on throwing in Muay Thai…
Just admit you are wrong, stop trying to act clever, it isn’t working… [/B]
You don’t have a complete list of rules for the style you teach and promote?
for the rocket scientist
I’m assuming you don’t read Chinese (heck, you barely read ENGLISH!)…
In English
Re: for the rocket scientist
Originally posted by lkfmdc
[B]I’m assuming you don’t read Chinese (heck, you barely read ENGLISH!)…
In English
http://www.iwuf.org/rules/rules_of_Sanshou_Chinese.doc
http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/ksdrules.html [/B]
More cheap insults, you’re so clever.
So if you don’t follow the rules at link one your not doing san shou and if you don’t follow the rules at link two your not doing san da?
A foul isn’t exactly “illegal” it’s a foul and works against points acquired.
I’ve watched the thai boxing from thailand too and there’s trips, sweeps, tosses that look like well calculated retreats or pushes(just fancy technique to achieve the throw really)
There is a lot of similarity in practice between the three.
Although I don’t think elbows are allowed in western muay thai where the are in thailand. there’s elbows and knees applenty in thai boxing.
I would say that in my viewers opinion, Muay Thai from thailand stands out while san da/san shou and american kickboxing look very similar to each other in practice.
I think a kickboxer could make the transitions to the western rules sets easier than a kickboxer could get good at muay thai to a level where he could enter their rings. But there’s always an exception or two. Those own or two innate fighters who can fit any venue that involves beating the parsley out of someones salad before thoroughly tossing it.
Originally posted by lkfmdc
[B]guys who like the san shou rules better are usually guys who have eaten a knee or two
[/B]
sad… but true:( …
stands out while san da/san shou and american kickboxing look very similar to each other in practice.
that’s a first… i didn’t know american kickboxing allowed leg kicks… kick catches… knees… or clinch fighting… i find the clinch to be the BIGGEST difference in san da and muay thai… muay thai fighter TEND to just the first clinch position and try to work the knees from there… it’s just grab and knee(i say TEND… i’m sure it’s not universal)… where as in san da the clinch is ALWAYS moving… and exhausting… going from one position to the next…
This is more directed to KungLek and lkfmdc, but I would be grateful if everyone else shared their views too. I will be fighting again in May in a sanshou match, does anyone have any techniques or combos to recommend.
Currently, I use this combos and counters. BTW I am a southpaw.
combos:
jab, cross, lead hook
front roundhouse to waist or thigh, jab, cross
double lead sidekick to either head, waist or thigh
jab, cross, rear roundhouse kick to the head or inner thigh
double jab, takedown
rear leg sidekick to retreating opponent after punching
multi punches, followed by sisscor leg takedown
counters:
leg grabs to kicks, followed by throws or sweep.
reverse roundhouse kick to head when opponent tries to circle
jumping back kick to waist at charging opponent.
There are techniques I use, but these are the common one I use often, anyone care to recommend other techniques to use.
dude, imo, it comes down to this.
1.understand the rules
2.do what works for you when in the fight.
I say that because your opponents are each gonna be different and are gonna have different attributes in their own conditioning, endurance and techniques.
get to the top of your game as best as you can conditioning and endurance wise. Find out which techniques are highest percentage for you against a variety of opponents and drill the shit out of those techs and practice them with live resisting opponents as oftenm as you can.
go fight and see where you get!
good luck!
see sifu ross’ sanda dvd thread.. and order one…
find out what works for you within the ruleset, as kl suggested.
Originally posted by jungle-mania
[B]This is more directed to KungLek and lkfmdc, but I would be grateful if everyone else shared their views too. I will be fighting again in May in a sanshou match, does anyone have any techniques or combos to recommend.
Currently, I use this combos and counters. BTW I am a southpaw.
combos:
jab, cross, lead hook
front roundhouse to waist or thigh, jab, cross
double lead sidekick to either head, waist or thigh
jab, cross, rear roundhouse kick to the head or inner thigh
double jab, takedown
rear leg sidekick to retreating opponent after punching
multi punches, followed by sisscor leg takedown
counters:
leg grabs to kicks, followed by throws or sweep.
reverse roundhouse kick to head when opponent tries to circle
jumping back kick to waist at charging opponent.
There are techniques I use, but these are the common one I use often, anyone care to recommend other techniques to use. [/B]
Originally posted by jungle-mania
[B]This is more directed to KungLek and lkfmdc, but I would be grateful if everyone else shared their views too. I will be fighting again in May in a sanshou match, does anyone have any techniques or combos to recommend.
Currently, I use this combos and counters. BTW I am a southpaw.
combos:
jab, cross, lead hook
front roundhouse to waist or thigh, jab, cross
double lead sidekick to either head, waist or thigh
jab, cross, rear roundhouse kick to the head or inner thigh
double jab, takedown
rear leg sidekick to retreating opponent after punching
multi punches, followed by sisscor leg takedown
counters:
leg grabs to kicks, followed by throws or sweep.
reverse roundhouse kick to head when opponent tries to circle
jumping back kick to waist at charging opponent.
There are techniques I use, but these are the common one I use often, anyone care to recommend other techniques to use. [/B]
you’re a southpaw. work your left cross. cut the ring off.
keep your combinations short & sweet.
work on your grappling. you said nothing of your clinch and if you think “takedown” is that simple then it’s going to be a long night…
Thanks for the insight, what do you mean by “cut the ring off”?
Do work on my grappling a large bit, most takedowns I do for offense is shooting and leg grabs for counters. For added training, I do wrestling, but tailored more towards sanshou rules.
Is grappling more important now than striking for the current international sanshou rules? Something that is bugging me for a while, or is it still a 50/50 issue?
19th,
I apologize for the poor manners of some of our younger posters…I haven’t really seen much san da, but have you ever seen kuoshu style fighting? I think that you might enjoy it, as the rules are in some ways less restrictive than muay thai or san da…
shameless plug
19thlohan; come visit us at boston sanshou and we’ll teach you all about the differences between mauy thai and san da. san shou and san da are very similar actually, san da just has a slight rules variation to deal with, but its basically the same thing. theyre a unique animal, only the uninitiated think its just like thai boxing or american rules kickboxing.
And then if youre still mad at lkfmdc we’ll set up a match for you w/ one of his guys and then you can show us how much you really know about this stuff 
BTW, we’re opening a big new training center at 1031 Commonwealth Ave in Boston (right near the EMS store) real soon, offering both traditional CMA and san shou / san da, should be open by next summer.
Until then you (0r anyone else reading who may be interested) can check out a san da class taught by Marvin Perry http://www.marvinperry.org/ for only $12 / class at the Brookline Community Center, he’s currently teaching at 6pm on monday and friday evenings (maybe some other nights too, email him thru his site for current schedule). He also offers private training sessions.
Then you could find out exactly what san da really is.
