Figured I’d start posting posts relevant to martial arts.
This post might even be geared more for grapplers, so I may post it at Mousel’s…
Many of us have heard grappler’s say “I train groundfighting so I don’t have to fight on the ground in the street.” That sounds good, but do you think someone who’s main style of fighting is BJJ or Wrestling will really avoid the ground at all costs in a real self defense situation? Obviously we all cross train in boxing, etc., but if a grappler spends most of his time training how to takedown, get postition, etc. Don’t you think that mindset will naturally take over in a stressful situation?
How true is that statement “I train groundfighting so I don’t have to go to the ground?” I’m not talking about someone less skilled trying to take YOU down…but more a person who is much more skilled in his hands then you are. Will you take it to the ground then?
Leaving all sport vs. self-defense nonsense to the side, do you think the statement “I train grappling but would never go there in the street” from a grappler, is a fallacy? How realistic is that statement? What would you do as a grappler in a self-defense situation? Punch? If so why not devote more time to boxing then you do to grappling? This is purely a self-defense scenario post. Although many grapplers say they have used just grappling in self-defense situations before and it worked just fine.
(I know I have personally)
The question probably doesn’t have a real answer, but thought it might be interesting for discussion. Enjoy.
If I can deal with an experienced grappler who can sweep, pass guard, has a good guard game, and a variety of subs from all positions, how much trouble will I have on the street against someone with little to no ground game?
I’m thinking I shouldn’t have much of a problem doing nasty things to him from full mount or knee-on-stomach.
IMO, that’s also the reason Shaui Chiao and Muay Thai work so well
Originally posted by Ryu “I train groundfighting so I don’t have to fight on the ground in the street.” “I train groundfighting so I don’t have to go to the ground?” “I train grappling but would never go there in the street”
Ryu
I think it is b.s. that people say in reaction to all of the input from hysterical tkd-types who scream “you can’t go to the ground or his friends will hurt you!”. As if these friends wouldn’t dream of interfering while you are standing. All bravado aside, a group of 3-4 people who have even a remote idea of what they are doing and are fully intent on doing you harm…sayonara.
People will and do go to the ground, especially if that’s where one of them wants to be (has trained to be)
if you are worried about dirt and glass and ****, you shouldn’t be fighting in the first place. If you are surrounded by enemies, you should be shuffling off to Buffalo. If you have an advantage, you will take it regardless of what you might say in calmer moments.
i think it’s just an excuse for grown men to roll around on the ground with other men. joking!
it’s like the saying ‘i train in martial arts so i don’t have to fight.’ an oxymoron to say the least, but basically you train so you know how to avoid/control those situations. if you have the misfortune of getting into a fight, then you are at least in a better position than not knowing martial arts at all. you will either have the skills to avoid the confrontation, or the skills to control it and come out on top. so if a person is training in groundfighting so they don’t have to groundfight, i wouldn’t take it THAT literally.
Another thing. Now, let me qualify this first. I understand that no one ever gets in a fight in a bar or nightclub, and I also know that if that did happen the crowd would automatically run away so that you have room to maneuver.
But…
Let’s assume for a minute that you did get attacked in a crowded bar (I know it could never happen but play along with me)
In theis case you could definately slam someone into a wall or even a crowd of people and work at least Americanas, arm triangles. and gi chokes (And yes I also know that people never ever wear jackets, coats, or flannel shirts so the gi choke thing is a moot point as well)
I think it is b.s. that people say in reaction to all of the input from hysterical tkd-types who scream “you can’t go to the ground or his friends will hurt you!”. As if these friends wouldn’t dream of interfering while you are standing. All bravado aside, a group of 3-4 people who have even a remote idea of what they are doing and are fully intent on doing you harm…sayonara.
Frankly, people are more emboldened when you are on the ground - they are more likely to attack you. They also have the impulse that because you are on the ground, you are less able to defend and thier friend may need trouble.
One on one, grappling gives a real, humane way to disable an aggressor.
In a real brawl, I just don’t buy it. Not from watching a lot of sporting events, but from watching a lot of brawls. I don’t discount groundwork (I really enjoy Sombo), but I am more concerned with my bladework, because humans are tool using animals, and if all you worry about is going to the ground, you missing out on where ther fight really is in the street. However, you will still be formidable to unarmed opponents that do not have friends around.
IMHO - In a fight the LAST place you want to be is the ground. Kerbs do hurt. If the guy has mates you’re f*cked, and if he has a weapon and gets an advantage you are dead. IMHO the best thing to do is to learn to stay standing, and to end it there.
Originally posted by DelicateSound
[B]IMHO - In a fight the LAST place you want to be is the ground. Kerbs do hurt. If the guy has mates you’re f*cked, and if he has a weapon and gets an advantage you are dead. IMHO the best thing to do is to learn to stay standing, and to end it there.
And if he’s beating you standing up - run. [/B]
If the guy has mates you’re f*cked
regardless of where you are
and if he has a weapon and gets an advantage you are dead.
regardless of where you are
the best thing to do is win, however you may be equipped to do so.
Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
[B]Frankly, people are more emboldened when you are on the ground - they are more likely to attack you. They also have the impulse that because you are on the ground, you are less able to defend and thier friend may need trouble.
[/B]
if you start beating on their friend standing, they will jump you as well. if not, they are pussies anyway and not worth worrying about in any case.
fights end up there, you better **** well know what to do when you get there.
I think it is b.s. that people say in reaction to all of the input from hysterical tkd-types who scream “you can’t go to the ground or his friends will hurt you!”. As if these friends wouldn’t dream of interfering while you are standing. All bravado aside, a group of 3-4 people who have even a remote idea of what they are doing and are fully intent on doing you harm…sayonara.
People will and do go to the ground, especially if that’s where one of them wants to be (has trained to be)
if you are worried about dirt and glass and ****, you shouldn’t be fighting in the first place. If you are surrounded by enemies, you should be shuffling off to Buffalo. If you have an advantage, you will take it regardless of what you might say in calmer moments. [/B]
Once you go to the ground you no longer have the option of “shuffling off the buffalo”. Plus you can no longer defend yourself well against anyone who attacks you after you first opponent. Multiple opponent fights do not have to be 4 vs 1 they can be 4 vs 4 as long as one guy on your side gets taken out of action someone on you side will have to deal with more than one opponent. Plus if you take your opponent down before his buddies are ingaged with fighting your buddies you will have to deal with more than one opponent again!
its safer to use striking plus throws. At least in the chinese style throws i know if you perform them properly your opponent wont get up for a little while. Take this throw for instance http://www.shenwu.com/yangtchnq.htm
This would take a couple of seconds to perform but after performing it you could charge another guy/ shuffle off to buffalo.
its safer to use striking plus throws. At least in the chinese style throws i know if you perform them properly your opponent wont get up for a little while. Take this throw for instance http://www.shenwu.com/yangtchnq.htm
This would take a couple of seconds to perform but after performing it you could charge another guy/ shuffle off to buffalo. [/B]
if you’re not prepared to go to ground, you have no business throwing.
Well I got in a fight with a guy who had about a group of 30 friends behind him. In that fight I fell to crossbody bottom wise and still made it back to standing. The way I look at it if there gonna jump you, there gonna jump you pretty much no matter what.
Its really too bad that no one ever thought of a way to immobilize an opponent while standing.
Its also too bad that no one created techniques specifically for multiple opponents.
It seems like you would need a combination of fast liner and large swinging attacks. You would need a strong base and smooth footwork to get around people.
It would also help if you knew how to throw one guy into another using body controls
Its really too bad that no one figured out how to fight this way. Oh well, looks like we have to start from scratch.
if you’re not prepared to go to ground, you have no business throwing. [/B]
Whether or not someone has training on the ground has nothing to do with the fact that it isnt a good idea to try to go to the ground against multiple opponents, the point i was trying to make.
Whether or not someone has training on the ground has nothing to do with the fact that it isnt a good idea to try to go to the ground against multiple opponents, the point i was trying to make. [/B]
not a good idea to stand up with them either. or play football with them, or run a relay race, or play poker, or hold a political debate, etc.
I had a look at that throw and I have to say that while the throw is good what is the story with the “punch” that the assailant threw? Even with the defender stepping in it still would have fallen about 2 and a half feet short of the target. Why is it that almost every Tai Chi (no disrespect, I love TaiChi) photo sequence involves defending against a punch that isn’t even going to come close to hitting? Why not show a sequence where the punch looks like it’s going to take the defender’s head off. Is it a TaiChi ettiquite thing (serious question). It makes the technique look unrealistic.
