(Possible PrideFC Body Blow spoiler warning)
Well, anyone who watched Pride last night saw just how fast knee strikes could not only end fights, but completely turn them around.
We have knees built into our Chum Kiu and Wooden Dummy sets, and extract them for pad work and other stuff, but haven’t emphasized them a great deal. Anyone here spend a lot of time on them?
(And, wrt PrideFC BB, just how fricken hard could Fedor hit from the guard, body structure or no body structure???)
I dont watch TV much- so no PRIDE for me.
Short answer- yes. Have to be careful about not being off balance
or stiff for wing chun motions.
BTW-Rene-
In the upcoming Inside Kung Fu issue’s cover there is a pic of a well known wing chun sifu simultaneously controlling, chopping and kneeing a poor helpless Damo ii. There was no “rehearsal” ahead of time for that shot—relatively spontaneous- but of course in the context of a camera shot.
joy
C’mon, Joy, the facial expression must have taken a little practice 
BTW- Congrats on the article! Hopefully it will penetrate up the frozen great lakes so I can read it one day…
wujidude
The devil is in the details.
I was taught knee usage in my WC from almost the very beginning. Spent a good bit of time on learning how to use them,proper angle to use ,targets, etc.
not sure where in chum kui these knees are but i do practice them on the pads and on my brother quite a bit.
Anyone mind enlightening me as to where in th forms i might find these devestating strikes. 
At the beginning of every kick dude
pseudoswitch is correct. Also, in the Sum Nung dummy set, there are separate knee strikes apart from the kicks.
Conceptually- knee development is in every form- including the dummy and weapons forms.
Folks who look for “techniques” are easily misled in understanding the forms.
Knees involve close contact work- hence they are more explicit
in dummy work…where you are in contact.
joy chaudhuri
“Anyone here spend a lot of time on them?”
Ya. frequently.
And Rene, how dare you sully this wing chun forum with such posts about those fighting barbarians. they are no match for wing chun. After all we have all the answers 
KWJ - “Answers” is a moving target. If you think you have them, its only because you lost sight of it and gave up the chase
What kind of training do you do? Lotsa pad work? I like the results but the loss of stability concerns me.
We have an MMA trainer here, super nice guy who was an amazing wrestler and is also a Renzo purple. He trains a lot of UCC fighters, and one of his guys (David L’Oiseaux) will be in the UFC against Weir. They seemed to train to take advantage of the clinch, inviting elbows or knees so they can get close enough for some slick singles or doubles (their form of “recovery techniques”
Hey Rene,
the knee stuff I do (which should overlap KWJ a lot)-
-pad work
-repeated air sequences combining the body mechanics driving my knee with hand work
Application of all of the above under light, medium, and heavy contact conditions- usually working light to medium
Lastly, after the first year or so in, knees are pretty much fair anytime in our training when things are a bit more free.
Later,
Andrew
fau kiu
We have knees built into our Chum Kiu and Wooden Dummy sets, and extract them for pad work and other stuff, but haven’t emphasized them a great deal. Anyone here spend a lot of time on them? --RR
What about defense of this type of attack anything you would like to emphasize in defense of an attacker using knees in the manner of the photograph on the link? Care to discuss the attack position or the flaws in the defense as shown in the photograph?
AndrewS - Excellent! Great stuff, and thanks much! Do you spend a lot of time on knees, in terms of overall percentage of training?
Tony - I would rather not discuss a theatrically staged magazine cover, it can too easily be misconstrued as an attempt to single out another member and branch of the WCK family.
fau kiu
Fair enough what about defending against a knee…
Tony - It’s not my area of expertise, but here are some thoughts FWIW. Flying knees from a distance usually telegraph (doesn’t mean they’re not dangerous or can’t catch you unaware, but does mean they establish path earlier on and give you a larger buffer), and you can treat as you would a kick or any other powerful, driving attack coming your way. In close, I try to make sure I’m the one controlling balance and momentum, making it difficult for them to think of kneeing, and if not, at least using my lower body to interfere with there’s, hopefully preventing the easy execution. If by poor fortune or preponderance of talent, they have control (eg. Thai Boxer has you around the neck), then I try to shield and choke the knees and regain my own alignment as fast as possible. On the ground, I would use their set up for the knee as my chance to escape/reverse/retaliate, and if I can’t, I’d shield, wait for another transitory moment, and try again.
(Lan Gerk this or Gum Sao that, IMHO, is a technical response far too dependant on individual conditions, so I’m sticking to overall strategy).
What’s your approach to the situation?
First of all, they should be more worried about my knees.
Secondly, there’s a way to throw them by stepping across and
behind their standing leg while controlling the upper body.
One of the worst is if they get you bent over, then knee your face.
Punches and knees are my best weapons, everthing else is to set these up.
Don’t forget the knee to the opponent’s thigh (defend by removing the leg) and the good 'ole knee to the groin (don’t know how to practice or defend that one)
Hey Rene,
knees as a percentage of training. Hmmm. The application stuff (lat sao) for 5 SG is about 1/3 knees, the rest serious elbow time. Figure for that time period (3-6 months), you should log about 1/3 your practice time in that environment. Roughing in it out, that works out to about 10% of your time in during that training period will be knees. After that, how much time you spend there depends on many things.
On a side note- defense against close knees is taught from SG1 on (as a variant on a low round kick defense progression- closing footwork, stop kick, pak gherk, yup/bong gherk, knee defense).
Trying to estimate an actually time percentage is hard- the 10% for 5SG is probably the top end of time spent. If you were spending 3-6 months where your primary material was technical chi sao with your application stuff having minimal chi gherk (SG 6,7,8), then the percentage would be lower, unless you choose to work stuff on your own.
Once you’re past 5 SG, knees are fair game, so people tend to get used to dealing them out and dealing with them.
As I ramble through this, here’s the best way to sum up how I train- I’ll work cyclically. I may obsess on knees (as much as injuries permit) for a month or two, and work them in various permutations for several hours a week, then I’ll probably wind up backing off and concentrating on something else for a while, doing a bit of knee work as maintenance. Usually, just teaching my juniors provides a good bit of that.
How do you work knees?
Later,
Andrew