The biggest single problem I have right now with my Taiji is relaxing my shoulders when my arms are extended. I think it stems from the fact that I also do a Southern Shaolin style where the shoulder muscles are used extensively.
Does anyone have any ideas on how to relax the shoulder when the arms are extended?
Also, because I do two styles I need to be able to switch between doing it with shoulder and without. Are there any prepatory excercises you guys do to relax the shoulders?
Try sinking your elbows.
Kumkuat-
Thanks for the input. Good advice, but what do I do when Iām moving my arm upward. It seems like my shoulders have to be involved in the movement? Yet my teacher says my shoulders must be relaxed even when Iām moving them. At least, I think that is what heās saying.
The tricks in the hip joint 
Hi Fu Pow,
about tense shoulders: unfortunately, ime, this is one reason why people often discourage trying to practice a āhardā style along with tjq. Most people, especially men, carry much of their tension in their shoulder/neck complex --even if they donāt exercise. Doing push ups, lifting weights, and using techniques that require the shoulder muscles only makes matters worse. Itās possible, of course, to offset this. You can/must work on relaxing those muscles way, way more than you work tensing them. That means in normal life and in your hard-style practice. It is also necessary, ime, to train oneself āoutā of the natural reaction to tense those muscles when under stress. Iābe been told that itās the single hardest thing to do in tjq --but, ymmv. As far as solving the problem, one way you might try is to concentrate on the latissimus dorsi --in order to pull your elbows down. But, this is a temporary measure meant only to keep your mind āoffā your shoulders. If you think about them, even tell them to ārelax,ā you wonāt be relaxed. Anyway, eventually youād want to get rid of that tension, too. Oh well, thatās my .02.
Respects,
Esteban
Relaxing shoulders
The idea behind any martial art is to be efficient. You will not be efficient if you are using muscles that are unnecessary for a particular action.
Try raising your arm slowly and pay attention to which muscles are really doing the action. Depending upon the direction in which you raise your arm, you will be involving mostly the deltoid muscles of the shoulder area. (Anterior deltoid-if raising to the front, middle deltoid-if raising to your side, posterior deltoid if raising to the rear)
The trapezius, on top of the shoulder and upper back, is the muscle used in shrugging your shoulders-an unnecessary motion in most raising arm movements. The function of the traps in lifting your arm would be in stabilizing the entire shoulder, as such it would only contract somewhat. That is what is usually meant by ārelaxā the shoulder while raising your arm.
A misunderstanding is that relaxing the shoulder would mean that there is absolutely no tension in the area. If that were so, there would be no movement since movement is caused by the contraction and relaxation (that is you need both) of muscles.
What most people try to do in Tai Chi is to feel movement originate in the body, rather than in the limb and then feel that energy travel through the body as a wave. This is accomplished with a minimum of muscluar contraction.
If you keep your elbow lower than your hand when you raise your arm, that will help to limit tension in the shoulder to the appropriate amount.
I agree, you can use the lats to keep the shoulders down, but this will create new tension in other muscles, so you should keep the lats loose in rasing your arm as soon as you can feel which muscles do what.
If you are extending your arm, be sure not to ālock outā your elbow-that is, do not go to 100% extension as that will create extra tension and if it becomes a habit may lead to problems with your elbow or shoulder joints.
In extending the arm totally different muscles come into play, such as the serratus in your back and sides, but these are not usually considered āshoulderā muscles.
I like you already. Welcome to the board.
Iāll probably get flamed for this, but check out the strecthing exercises from Sambo. Iām working out with a Sambo nut, and it has done wonders for my shoulders.
I was born tense and a couple decades of CMA has helped some - but this stuff is magic. Improved my force projection considerably - it also showed me some flaws in my usage that I couldnāt āfeelā before.
All from some wrestling exercises. Cool stuff.
Oh, and what the other guys said too.
Originally posted by Fu-Pow
Thanks for the input. Good advice, but what do I do when Iām moving my arm upward. It seems like my shoulders have to be involved in the movement? Yet my teacher says my shoulders must be relaxed even when Iām moving them. At least, I think that is what heās saying.
I had a problem with that too such as the very first movment where you bring your arms up and then down. Well, Yan GoaFei told us to sink to raise our arms. I really didnāt know how to exactly interprete that but I imagine that your arms are a lever and the fulcrum is at your shoulder. Then once you get āunderā your arms you push it up with your body.
I typed this up before anyone else responded but the board went crazy and I couldnāt post it, so some of this has allready been said:
Iām wrestled with the same thing, so I can tell you whatās worked for me. Although I do bagua and not taiji, so some of this may be inappropriate for you.
The important idea is keeping connection between your arm and body, so if you work on the components adjacent to your shoulder, your shoulder should do what itās supposed. In particular, try to work on the idea of sinking or heaviness/āthe bodyās weightā in the elbows. Also the idea of lats doing the shoulders work. Iāve had alot of success working with the idea of the lower lats being closer to the origin of the movement, as well as the muscles of the lower back around the spine - which propagates up to those sinking elbows, just passing through hanging shoulders (rather than the shoulders doing the pushing and pulling like is more instinctual for adults and probably what youāre more used to from your other art). The tough part about these aspects is all the coiling - while your elbow sinks, your forearm must rotate outwards (the two forces seem to contradict); similarly, it was hard for me to spread my upper back without lifting the shoulders a little. Iām not sure if thereās as much of that kind of coiling in taiji or not. If youāre really in a bind, you might want to try pulling your shoulders down and out by spreading your mid-upper lats. Talking about this kind of muscular usage isnāt en vogue in the neijia, but some people have recommended this in the past. I experimented with this a bit, and though I donāt do it (explicitly) any more, I believe it helped me get a better sense for the movement of the ultra-lower lats and lower back. You might want to try to pay a bit more attention to springiness or a kind of āloadingā in your movements. When I was obsessed with āmoving as one unitā and I (for example) stepped forward into a right bowstance while thrusting my right palm forward, I had trouble with my right shoulder. My teacher showed me how I should be loading/springing just a bit more; the right arm sinks at first (think about the heavy elbow), and then thrusts forward. Again, itās one of those things where you have to find the right balance of moving-as-one and springyness. Another big thing that helped for me was paying attention to the shoulders during form and warm-up work; particularly if you have any postures where the hands raise high up over the head - I found that once I could do this naturally with hanging shoulders, the lateral energies were also easier to do. Finally, the most helpfull thing for me has been rooting exercises, particularly dynamic ones involving footwork and body turning. The incoming force makes you really notice your structure, and it becomes apparent immediately if youāve done something wrong - so itās very helpfull in finding the right āmixā of things, and serving as a guideline to your solo practice.
Of course, Iām still struggling with these things, but this is what Iāve found has helped for me so far. I hope some of this can help you too; good luck.
Thanks for the replies all. Very helpful. Iāll post back and let you know how it goes.
Wujidude-
I may start doing the Chan Si Gong class instead of the Hun Yuan Gong for a while. Perhaps this will help.
Wellā¦I briefly tried some of your suggestions about sinking the elbow. The immediate effect was that I felt a tingling almost painful sensation on the underside of my arms. Iām not sure what this means.
without getting to tecnical it sounds as though you may have some blockedge in your (arm lesser yin heart meridian) if indeed it is blocked you will feel tighness or tingling from the armpit to the last 2 fingers. This should not occur from simply dropping your elbows. But try rolling your shoulders for a few minutes before you start yout set, see if that helps. good luck your freind E.D
Relaxing shoulders
Dropping your elbows and keeping your shoulders down should not result in the sensations you listed. It sounds like you may be forcing your arms down with too much strength. If that is the case, you may be āimpingingā on a nerve in your shoulder and arm. Also be careful not to turn your shoulders in towards your body too much, since that can also cause pressure on a nerve.
Unfortunately, that pressure is similar to that described above in relation to blockages of chi flow.
Be sure to āallowā your arms to sink, not force them down. The feeling is very gentle.
Donāt raise your arms. Raise your hands.