I seem to consistently have a problem being too tense and not relaxing my shoulders when extending punches, etc. I can’t seem to correct the problem. Especially when I’m doing a form I find myself tensing up a minute after I thought I corrected it. Does anyone know of any drills or methodology that might help me with this?
Thanks
take a deep breath… shake it out… and relax;)
Well, that certainly does help…for a second. 
Maybe it is just a training thing that someday will just click for me. I had another friend suggest that I do dai fan che (spelling?) windmill drills and that would help to loosen up my shoulders. Maybe I’ll try that.
I had problems with this very thing for years. In fact, I sometimes still do if I’ve been under stress and am not paying attention. Some things you have to constantly be aware of, you’ve got to use your mind to make your body do what you want it to.
It’s sort of like training a dog. You keep on the dog with whatever you’re training it to do, and then once it’s trained, you periodically check to make sure it isn’t slipping back into old habits. Some dogs never get what you want them to do unless you stand over them making sure they obey.
If this habit happens to be the “untrainable dog” sort, you may just have to keep working at it forever. That shouldn’t be as big of a problem as it seems though; your body may never get it, but your mind will get really good at correcting the mistake!
So the key here is to use your mind. Don’t let up on that ol’ dog or it’ll pee on the carpet!
[QUOTE=Codeboy;854282]Well, that certainly does help…for a second.
Maybe it is just a training thing that someday will just click for me. I had another friend suggest that I do dai fan che (spelling?) windmill drills and that would help to loosen up my shoulders. Maybe I’ll try that.[/QUOTE]
muscular tension is a mind/body thing(neuromuscular)… you THINK you are tense therefore you are… you have to retrain your thinking about/around/during that what is making you tense… in this case, your form… of course its only going to work for a second, and when you notice yourself tense, shake it out again… lather, rinse, repeat…
eventually, over time and with work, it will work itself out… there is no magic oneshot pill…
one of the things that worked for me was just trying to hold some light weights (maybe 5lbs) in a boxing type “guard” position for time. You can throw punches and shadow if you like; but you’ll learn real quick (within the first 3-minute round or 2) that if you don’t teach your muscles how to relax under tension that you’ll burn out. From there, work on doing the same for punches.
Good suggestions all, thank you very much!
My Sifu often says how the mind understands but the body does not. I’ll be working on my form tonight in class so I will try to put this into practice!
Relaxation is over rated, you wanna be tense, and don;t forget to clinch and tense your butt cheeks too, really tense, so tense you can turn coal into diamonds in your butt crack.
Just saying…
tenseness is…
Stress will cause tension- learning something new or that you’re unsure of is stressful.
One day you’ll just stop giving a $hit and then poof no more tension.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;854641]Relaxation is over rated, you wanna be tense, and don;t forget to clinch and tense your butt cheeks too, really tense, so tense you can turn coal into diamonds in your butt crack.
Just saying…[/QUOTE]
Sanjuro wrote this one while listening to the Village People’s greatest hits on his iPod.
[QUOTE=MightyB;857368]Sanjuro wrote this one while listening to the Village People’s greatest hits on his iPod.[/QUOTE]
looks over his shoulder…How the hell…
Just to add a couple more things that should help:
Well, doesn’t have to be your hips, but since they’re a prime source of power generation for some arts that’s a good place for your focus. Anyway, the point is to concentrate solely on the main power generation area, or just some part of the body where the physical motion is giving you trouble. When you concentrate fully on that, you’ll forget your shoulders.
In aikido I always concentrated on sinking my hips and keeping them loose and revolving smoothly, and in wing chun… well, it was basically the same! And in boxing I always concentrated fully on the footwork, which meant my shoulders just relaxed by accident!
[QUOTE=Codeboy;854177] Does anyone know of any…methodology that might help me with this?[/QUOTE]
just some general resources in regards to this question that may be useful; all the links are to the national/international certifying bodies (meaning that only practitioners accredited through these organizations ought to be considered, as the training for each approach is several years long):
FELDENKRAIS METHOD
http://www.feldenkrais.com/
http://www.feldenkrais.com/classes/find_an_atm_class/
ALEXANDER TECHNIQUE
http://www.alexandertech.org/
http://www.alexandertech.org/teachers/FindTeachers.php
TRAGERWORK/MENTASTICS
http://www.trager-us.org/
http://www.trager-us.org/cgi-bin/search.cgi
ROLFING/STRUCTURAL INTEGRATION
http://www.rolf.org/
http://www.rolf.org/find/locate.asp
finally, this is a link to a method developed by Carl Stough, for which I couldn’t find a national certifying organization, but it describes how one might try it on ones own; it’s not the clearest description, so don’t get hung up on it if you don’t understand what they are suggesting, but it’s just an idea to consider (I do something very similar w/people I work with, and my taiji / qigong teacher uses this approach from time to time w/good results):
http://www.breathingcoordination.com/selfhelp.html
all combine varying degrees and types of hands-on work with movement practice; I personally have had varying degrees of experience with all of them, and would say that each has its strengths; the common element underlying all of them is that they promote a level of self-awareness via movement and breath that is generally deeper than what most people typically experience in their daily lives; certainly, finding the right practitioner for oneself is also important, like any approach or method you will get a wide variety of personalities…
cjurakpt suggests some good sources. If you wish to try something outside of the trademark licensed schools here are a couple of suggestions.
Learning to relax a certain part of the body might be easier if you tense something else. I suggest upper trap/neck stretches to remind you how much distance there can be between the shoulders and head. Then try to utilize the scapular stabilizer muscles in your back to keep the shoulder blades from floating up when you punch. Some schools advocate punching with a “long neck and short trunk.” In other words tightened abs are balanced by tightening the back a bit, giving the sensation of a depressed or compacted ribcage. With the shoulder blades stabilized and “attached” to the mid-back the punch is delivered first with body rotation and trunk power. Then the arm is extended with whatever kind of exertion the style demands. (I know some instructors advocate arm extension first, followed by body rotation–if this is your style you still might try this as an alternative training method.)
Many people have trouble getting in touch with these mid-back muscles and can’t feel what they need to do to isolate them. Try depressing your shoulders while remaining relaxed otherwise.
Another technique is to punch slowly while imagining that the shoulders and elbows are very heavy; solid gold, if you like.
Good luck.
[QUOTE=jdhowland;861099]cjurakpt suggests some good sources. If you wish to try something outside of the trademark licensed schools here are a couple of suggestions.
Learning to relax a certain part of the body might be easier if you tense something else. I suggest upper trap/neck stretches to remind you how much distance there can be between the shoulders and head. Then try to utilize the scapular stabilizer muscles in your back to keep the shoulder blades from floating up when you punch. Some schools advocate punching with a “long neck and short trunk.” In other words tightened abs are balanced by tightening the back a bit, giving the sensation of a depressed or compacted ribcage. With the shoulder blades stabilized and “attached” to the mid-back the punch is delivered first with body rotation and trunk power. Then the arm is extended with whatever kind of exertion the style demands. (I know some instructors advocate arm extension first, followed by body rotation–if this is your style you still might try this as an alternative training method.)
Many people have trouble getting in touch with these mid-back muscles and can’t feel what they need to do to isolate them. Try depressing your shoulders while remaining relaxed otherwise.
Another technique is to punch slowly while imagining that the shoulders and elbows are very heavy; solid gold, if you like.
Good luck.[/QUOTE]
just to clarify, jd is describing mid and lower trapezius when he’s talking about scapular stabilizers / mid-back muscles; typically they are reltively inhibited, in contrast to the relatively more facilitated antagonists such as upper traps, pecs, subscapularis (a biggie) and lats;
the method he describes can work just fine - if you can’t “access” those LT’s on your own, there are a bunch of ways off the top of my head that I can get someone to, but most involve tactile feedback, either as resistance to LT’s to activate them isometrically, or re-positioning the costal cage, or de-facilitating upper respiratory inhalation (scalenes, SCM and UT’s) and promoting more decent of respiratory diaphragm during inhalation (usually by emphasizing exhalation first)
actually, this video is pretty good at explaining the motion LT’s do, although I wouldn’t necessarily start with those particular exercises and i would talk about how to coordinate a chin tuck and the breathing (usually inhalation during the first part at least) with it as well: http://mentalhelp.healthology.com//hybrid/hybrid-autodetect.aspx?focus_handle=workplace-health&content_id=3104&brand_name=mentalhelp
this is also a pretty good article on typical agonist / antagonist relationships that tend to promote a facilitated / inhibited imbalanced force couples (pretty much summarizing the work of Janda, Levitt and Sahrmann)
http://www.stephenholtfitness.com/articles/what_to_stretch_what_to_strengthen.htm
learning how to access LT’s will go a LONG way towards improving vertical orientation and reducing fatigue, as well as a nice way to “squeeze out” the mid thoracic zone, where you get a lot of stress-related activity via the sympathetic trunk / chain of the sympathetic nervous system running along the side of the vertebrae; overall a very worthwhile endeavor…
BTW, the reason this area gives u so much trouble is, I believe, a direct result of our bipedal orientation: if you are a quadriped, you are constantly working the agonist / antagonists in a on/off cycle, keeping them balanced via the wieghtbearing on the hands; so doing things in quadriped or on hands alone makes sense
in the simplest of terms:
focus on the area where there is tension.
breath in, then breath out and release that tension consciously.
stand straight with your hands at your sides, touch your chin to your chest, hand your arms straight down and reach for the floor with your fingertips, consciously lightly pulling the shoulders down.
do this for a while.
in all other practice, use a mirror and pay close attention to the area you are having difficulty with. Consciously make the change and be acutely aware of how it feels when in the correct position. try to remember how that feels and move towards that feeling each time you practice. keep checking and keep correcting until it is second nature to move with correct structure and posture.
tere are myriad methods, but quite a lot of it is that you are required to pay strict attention to your own body and how it feels as you move or don’t move.
Well, I know how I have learned to relax my shoulders, but I don’t know if it’s much use to you. Keeping arms extended, straight and hands flexed back while doing warm ups (leg raisers, crescents, you can even do it with kicks and a modified version with side kicks). While you’re still new to the concept or periodically for a good challenge, do 40-50 on each side to kill the arms.
Exhaust the arms and the shoulders will drop. Your upper body will be relaxed and supposedly more whip-like (I’m working on it!). The next step would be opening up the hips and waist and so forth. I’d ignore the people who say you “should” be tense. You “should” be like a bolt of lightning, not George Castanza!