I couldn’t find a thread on this through a search, but if you know of it, please post the link.
I’m just wondering if registering your hands does a d@mn bit of good? If anything, does it make you more liable in a self defense situation? Or is it worse when the cops find out later that you’re a martial arts instructor?
Thanks for any info,
-123
It’s stupid. It’s a myth. Anything can be a deadly weapon including your hands. I know of no state that requires reqistering them or one that even has an administrative mechanism for “registering”.
As far as “making you a target” then any martial artist is a target if they defend themselves.
yep, second jp’s response to that. someone is giving you the old disinfo if you have recently been fed teh malarky about “registering your hands” lol.
no such thing.
My father took me to register my hands when I got my black belt, Kearny, NJ… I was 11 and probably had snot running down my nose:(
I’ve heard that one.
I’ve also heard that if attacked you have to warn your attacker at least three times before using martial arts.
Sometimes, after reading some threads on this board, I think people should have to register their computer as a deadly weapon!
Did you have to register your feet too? How about your elbows? Your broadsword? If you put you hands in your pocket, can you be arrested for carrying a concealed weapon?
Can anyone from NJ confirm this? Seriously, I’ve read articles debunking this claim. I’d like to confirm if they are (and I am) wrong.
Regardless, what does “registering” yourself accompolish?
Here is one of the articles that I am referring to:
http://ask.yahoo.com/20050331.html
I KNOW that there’s no current statute in NJ that requires this. I DOUBT that there ever was. My guess is that Ray’s father wanted to be safe after hearing this rumor. I’m sure that the police actually get questions on this one fairly often.
This is absolutly FALSE!
I share my school with a County sheriff and taught hand to hand comabt for the B.P.D. There is no such nor was there ever a law or requirement by any law enforcement or division or public saftey that has such a thing.
Dont believe the hype! And if somebody does say this to you… beat them up becuse they dont know $hit
No offence to anyone but thats why I dont have 11 year old black belts. I am from the old school and beleive you must be 18 years of age to hold this (used to be) honnered title.
I saw 2 little girls at the mall last week with pig talis braces and guess what??? TKD black belts. thay had patches on called little tigers class… this is the problem with American standards and todays BS crap! sorry needed to rant
Okay, thank you guys for the confirmation. It seems like this is a non-issue. However, if a martial arts student uses his stuff in self defense, vs. a martial arts teacher (ie, one who openly teaches to the public and is a public figure), are there a different set of rules that go into play when assessing the damage? Is the teacher (who may or may not be self-proclaimed) any more liable for using excessive force in a self-defense situation than the student? or is it all the same?
There are a lot of gray areas when it comes to MA teachers. Anyone can open a school, with no credentials. There are no real standards, and I’m not saying there should be. But I’m curious to know how the law accounts for the fact that our profession is teaching how to hurt people.
-123
In general, if you win the fight someone will try to make you liable many times. If it isnt the law, it will be the loser. Many socio-paths dont mind dominating you, but if you dominate them they whine to their lawyers! You must always consider who you are fighting. It is likely you have more to lose by fighting than a socio-path who gains status by either winning the fight or going to prison, while you may be mostly concerned with supporting your family and not getting permanently injured.
By the way this has happened to me! I won, I was in the right, I was defending my family, I went to jail! Once the bad guy saw what he was up against he pi$$ed his pants and cried all the way to the police. My circumstance was much more complicated than most so this is by no means something I would say will happen to everyone. It is just my experience first hand. Also the guy out weighed me by about 40-60 lbs, but he was a minor. Thought he was pretty tough for about 2 seconds, LOL!!
yutyeesam,
However, if a martial arts student uses his stuff in self defense, vs. a martial arts teacher (ie, one who openly teaches to the public and is a public figure), are there a different set of rules that go into play when assessing the damage? Is the teacher (who may or may not be self-proclaimed) any more liable for using excessive force in a self-defense situation than the student? or is it all the same?
anytime you are a professional in any type of fighting, self defense,
pro wrestling, boxing etc etc, there is the potential for it to be used against you in court. One could say you went beyond reasonable force.
However there is no law that states if you train, teach, are certified or have taken some MA lessons you are somehow more dangerous than your average citizen.
This is not to be confused in litigation where that very thing could make you look more of a threat and judges will look at your profession and figure you have the neccessary judgement and mneas to control yourself in a combat situation.
however again, I got into a fight outside a bar years ago when this guy threw a punch at me, I ducked, punched back then trapped his elbow and broke his arm. I got arrested as did the other guy, a cop witnessed the whole thing and when in handcuffs the police said wow that was a good shot, but howe did you break his arm so easily? I explianed that I that i won a MA school and have been teaching elbow breaks to my students for the whole month and I just reated out of instinct and that I felt really bad about what i did, then he replied well theres nothing illegal about defending yourself… i was not charged and let go on my own recognisence.
Here is basic advice that I give regarding self-defense as a lawyer and as a marital artist. You are justified in using potentially deadly force only if you can demonstrate a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury. If you can’t show, objectively not subjectively, that you were in fear of serious bodily injury then you cannot use force in return. You are limited to using similar force in situations.
If a guy shoves you then you probably can’t break his leg. If he balls up a fist, then you can and should strike him before he can strike you. If you are trained then your actions will be subject to greater scrutiny by the lawyers that look at this with hind-sight and an agenda. Did you have to break his jaw? Could you have submitted him without causing serious injury? Isnt’ that what you are trained to do? Isn’t it true that when you got in the moment you were excited and wanted to hurt the guy? Didn’t you want to show him not to mess with you? Didn’t you go too far in your force? Did you ego push you beyond what was necessary under the circumstances?
These arguments may or may not be persuasive, but you KNOW that you are going to be faced with them. What I would do is as soon as I defended myself in any circumstance, I would call the police and swear out a warrant agasint them for assualt. I don’t care if I’m standing over their unconscious body when I make the call. For me to have been justified in defending myself, they would have committed a crime of at least assault. Put them on the defenseive first before they limp home, take pictures of their injuries and call a lawyer.
Oh, I’m not saying I had to… I’m saying ym dad took me. He loved that I trained martial arts. I remember being taken to the Town Hall (which shared residence with the police station at the time) and going up to some window. There certainly could have been some winking involved between my dad and who ever was behind the window.
Town hall was like 3 blocks away, so it wasn’t liek going out of the way.
True story.
If there really was some type of file like that, they’d still have it I guess. The town is Kearney, NJ, 07032.
That makes sense. Like I said, I’ve looked back through NJ statutes and there’s no current requirement (and I see no reason to repeal something like that–weird laws stay on the books forever).
If you find that you have been in a conflict and you won and the poilce came etc etc etc.
It’s in your best interest to not say anything about martial arts.
If you’re arrested just ask for a lawyer and decline to say anything.
common sense.
True. Though I would advocate caling the police and implicating him as starting it and you as defending yourself. Be upfront with that and start the record early that you were doning nothing but protecting yourself or those you care about.
That’s cool. You’ve got a good dad.
Yea. I love him. Lots of years he drove me to karate and waited outside in the car while I trained. He worked hard and I never saw him much, so going to and from class was the time we spent together … that and taking me to movies like Missing In Action:)
To start with defending yourself is a little different than getting in an altercation.
I think in the majority of these cases had someone just walked away then nothing would have happened. I’ve learned that most people are better with their mouth than their fists.
Anyway, when something likes this happens (let’s say I was standing over someone with their breath knocked out or a lump on their head) I’m not going to stand around and wait for the police…or for that matter 4-5 of the guys friends to regroup. I’m just casually going to walk away, get in my car and leave. I would have no desire to explain anythng to the police.
An altercation is different, but I’d rather be the one to talk to the police first then have them show up at my house or my job a couple of days later because the other guy has sworn out a warrant.
Hands: #339229455
Feet: #339229456
That was with the FBI and it has to be renewed every 7 years.