Question for experienced practitioners!

Sounds good, Andrew. Care to go into more detail? Or hit us with a link to a vid of something similar?

Not an easy thing to encapsulate in a few sentences, but:

Good head positioning in the clinch can negate many striking options. Basically if your head is glued to his body, his options to hit you with any authority are limited. If you can hide your head, you can hide your eyes and throat. OTOH, if you are controlling HIS head, per the MT plum or similar, you can put him in position to expose targets.

Astute clinch positioning can also rob him of the structure he needs to strike. If he’s off balance, bent forward, arched back, up on his toes or has his spine bent or twisted, or if he is carrying your bodyweight as well as his, or he’s been lifted off the ground, he’s going to have a great deal of trouble doing that deadly one inch punch.

Tying up his limbs with yours can take away his ability to use his weapons. Most of the basic tie ups with good head position mean he can only strike with little power to relatively inconsequential targets.

We hear all the time about the importance of correct structure to WC power generation - especially short power. If you can take away that structure and/or the space and targets to use it, you also take away the power.

In the guard, similar things are possible. You usually want him either on open guard right away from you where you can kick the crap out of him if he gets too close, or right in tight with one limb and the head controlled (e.g the classic overhook one arm, head on that side (so he can’t hit it with the free hand)next to his (avoiding butts) and hips out that side (so he can’t get his arm out of the overhook by posting), pulling his head down with your other hand, or using it to parry shots he takes at your side with his free hand. Get it in the crook of his elbow and he can’t do much.

MY MMA teacher also teaches a fairly simple guard pass, with a window of risk for triangles and armbars, which ends up with the guy that was in guard twisted up like a pretzel, all four limbs under control or unable to be used effectively, leaving you with a direct power shot at his face. Nitey night if you ever get caught here.

John Will (bjj.com.au) has developed some simple but effective strategies to allow a grappler to close on a striker without taking serious damage. While I’ve only seen vids and read articles on Keysi, they seem to do similar things, but to get in range to employ close range elbows and headbutts, etc., rather than grapple.

A lot of these things have application to WC. WC (generally) is more about control for a short period and hitting the guy with a flurry of blows while he is not in a position to parry, retaliate or retreat, MMA/grappling is about getting greater control for a longer period over the person’s body, to apply either blows or submission holds. Both strategies are applicable to different defense situations, with some overlap.

BTW, I do believe in short power. My first instructor has an excellent one inch punch and could deliver serious short power from just about anywhere. It probably didn’t hurt that he had a nidan in goju karate before taking up WC, and used to do quite a lot of breaking. He could break 8 roof tiles with a backfist, shutting up the “backfists have no power” crowd.

But this is not the norm in WC in my experience.


"Good head positioning in the clinch can negate many striking options. Basically if your head is glued to his body, his options to hit you with any authority are limited. If you can hide your head, you can hide your eyes and throat. OTOH, if you are controlling HIS head, per the MT plum or similar, you can put him in position to expose targets.

Astute clinch positioning can also rob him of the structure he needs to strike. If he’s off balance, bent forward, arched back, up on his toes or has his spine bent or twisted, or if he is carrying your bodyweight as well as his, or he’s been lifted off the ground, he’s going to have a great deal of trouble doing that deadly one inch punch.

Tying up his limbs with yours can take away his ability to use his weapons. Most of the basic tie ups with good head position mean he can only strike with little power to relatively inconsequential targets.

We hear all the time about the importance of correct structure to WC power generation - especially short power. If you can take away that structure and/or the space and targets to use it, you also take away the power.

In the guard, similar things are possible. You usually want him either on open guard right away from you where you can kick the crap out of him if he gets too close, or right in tight with one limb and the head controlled (e.g the classic overhook one arm, head on that side (so he can’t hit it with the free hand)next to his (avoiding butts) and hips out that side (so he can’t get his arm out of the overhook by posting), pulling his head down with your other hand, or using it to parry shots he takes at your side with his free hand. Get it in the crook of his elbow and he can’t do much.

MY MMA teacher also teaches a fairly simple guard pass, with a window of risk for triangles and armbars, which ends up with the guy that was in guard twisted up like a pretzel, all four limbs under control or unable to be used effectively, leaving you with a direct power shot at his face. Nitey night if you ever get caught here.

John Will (bjj.com.au) has developed some simple but effective strategies to allow a grappler to close on a striker without taking serious damage. While I’ve only seen vids and read articles on Keysi, they seem to do similar things, but to get in range to employ close range elbows and headbutts, etc., rather than grapple.

A lot of these things have application to WC. WC (generally) is more about control for a short period and hitting the guy with a flurry of blows while he is not in a position to parry, retaliate or retreat, MMA/grappling is about getting greater control for a longer period over the person’s body, to apply either blows or submission holds. Both strategies are applicable to different defense situations, with some overlap.

BTW, I do believe in short power. My first instructor has an excellent one inch punch and could deliver serious short power from just about anywhere. It probably didn’t hurt that he had a nidan in goju karate before taking up WC, and used to do quite a lot of breaking. He could break 8 roof tiles with a backfist, shutting up the “backfists have no power” crowd.

But this is not the norm in WC in my experience.

anerlich

I watch UFC all the time. Watching it tonight. Some of these guys are reputed to have some serious MA skills. However, you sure couldn’t prove it by the way they are fighting. What name to you fight under. I will be sure to watch you.

anerlich


I watch UFC all the time. Watching it tonight. Some of these guys are reputed to have some serious MA skills. However, you sure couldn’t prove it by the way they are fighting. What name to you fight under. I will be sure to watch you.

You quoted my post in full for some reason. Thought it worth repeating and couldn’t find anything in it to refute, I gather. :cool:

I watch UFC all the time.

Great. We can never have too many armchair experts. :rolleyes:

Since you seem to have formed the incorrect impression (your earlier post) that kicks below the waist aren’t allowed in MMA, which watching the UFC would refute fairly quickly, I can only conclude either that that statement is a lie or that your powers of observation are abysmal or you are the victim of severe cognitive dissonance resulting from your own prejudices. In any case, your judgements about the skill of the partcipants are thus of little value.

Why do you regularly watch something you seem to think is crap? Can’t enjoy yourself without having something or someone to criticise and belittle? Need to pull others down to lift yourself up? The TCMA way, ain’t it cool?

What name to you fight under. I will be sure to watch you.

I won’t be fighting in the next UFC (they don’t have a Senior IV division), so you’ll have to save your contempt for someone else. Or bottle it up - let it temper that winning attitude.

[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;867010]__________________
"Good head positioning in the clinch can negate many striking options…

… It probably didn’t hurt that he had a nidan in goju karate before taking up WC, and used to do quite a lot of breaking. He could break 8 roof tiles with a backfist, shutting up the “backfists have no power” crowd.

But this is not the norm in WC in my experience.


I watch UFC all the time. Watching it tonight. Some of these guys are reputed to have some serious MA skills. However, you sure couldn’t prove it by the way they are fighting. What name to you fight under. I will be sure to watch you.[/QUOTE]Great post Lee, but I don’t understand the relevance or point of your last paragraph… What do you mean? :confused: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

[QUOTE=Mr Punch;867021]Great post Lee, but I don’t understand the relevance or point of your last paragraph… What do you mean? :confused: :stuck_out_tongue: :D[/QUOTE]

Most of that post was quoting anerlich, only the end was Lee.

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;867029]Most of that post was quoting anerlich, only the end was Lee.[/QUOTE]Well spotted. Do they have sarcasm in Canada, or has your brain just frozen! :stuck_out_tongue:

[QUOTE=Mr Punch;867086]Well spotted. Do they have sarcasm in Canada, or has your brain just frozen! :p[/QUOTE]

It’s hard to think when you live in an igloo!

What name to you fight under. I will be sure to watch you.

I won’t be fighting in the next UFC (they don’t have a Senior IV division), so you’ll have to save your contempt for someone else. Or bottle it up - let it temper that winning attitude.

Actually, I did not mean to quote the entire posting. I am not really that fluent with the computer. However, I was led to believe this individual was actually a UFC fighter from the way he talks. What ever your name is, I do not have contempt for you. I just find you contemptuous, rude and arrogant. This happens to some people when they are behind a keyboard.

However, I was led to believe this individual was actually a UFC fighter from the way he talks.

You have a comprehension issue. I said I trained MMA once a week. Mr Punch asked me a question which I answered. This is stuff I have learned through regular training. I never claimed to be a UFC competitor, MMA expert or equivalent. I strongly doubt anyone else got that impression (and doubt you did either, you’re just talking out of your a$$).

I was led to beleive you’re actually a sad, envious old man with a chip on his shoulder by the way you talk, FWIW.

What ever your name is, I do not have contempt for you. I just find you contemptuous, rude and arrogant.

This from someone who insults the abilities of UFC fighters, says they’re all bulls, etc etc. Pot, kettle, black!

This happens to some people when they are behind a keyboard.

Go to the mirror before you criticise the posting behaviour of others.

[QUOTE=Mr Punch;867086]Well spotted. Do they have sarcasm in Canada, or has your brain just frozen! :p[/QUOTE]

Bite me.

It’s hard to think when you live in an igloo!

Suck it, suck it long and suck it hard.

:stuck_out_tongue:

No matter what to say all UFC fighters are crap is not right. While some are enot very “entertaning” they all have some degree of competence in what they do. I know I wouldn’t want to fight a Chuck liddel or Sukuraba ( my favourite, strange for a VT guy), if only for the fact they are highly well trained athletes and I would be having a heart attack after 3mins, lol:p.

Perception is everything…

they all have some degree of competence in what they do.

Benny i think its fair to say that alot of the guys in UFC have great skills.

If anyone disagrees then they generally have a limited opinoin in my view.

When we watch the myriad of VT clips out there more often than not it looks lack luster mainly IMO because Guys of similar levels using the same style can styfle each other and make things looks less technical and skilled, things get messy - more than the messy reality of fighting anyway.

IMHO its the same with UFC, similar levels of skill - conditioning - weight classes -

All these and more make it tough to really get a sence of how good some of these guys actually are.

More often than not a good spectacle will arise from a good match up.

If you saw anyone of these guys training against a ‘hobby’ MMA guy or even a NHB match against your Sifu i think the skill difference would be obvious.

IMO theres so much more to UFC now than actual fighting …

Conditioning and even more important implementing a game plan is often what makes or breaks fighters.

Im still in awe of someone like Randy Couture, like when he fought Tim Silvia.
His hands improved big time you woulda thought him a unorthodox boxer not a wrestler by the way he bobbed and weaved and chipped away at Silvia.
He stood in the pocket and picked him apart IMO.

His ability to change, adapt, assimilate fighting skills to get a job done is to be admired by other fighters. Including me.

The biggest thing i take away from being an armchair fan of UFC is that one of the best factors to winning a fight is making the oponnent work in your game parameters. For a VT guy thats up close and personal.

You wont see these guys killing people in the streets with Bui Jee Lee Chiang Po LOL.

But regardless they have mad skillz.

DREW

I totally agree. (how cool is randy 40 something and he still kicks arse.)
I have loved the UFC since it started. And very true that you get two good grapplers it gets a bit boring, except sukuraba and carlos newtown. That fight in pride gave me a new found liking to the ground game, move and counter then counter and so on.
Especially now people have become accustomed to being on the ground it has totally changed. I find both sides of the debate funny, the whole, well i wont go to the ground and the ill take a few shots to get in. I have been training with a guy from work ( I work in the security industry, possible the smallest bouncer alive at 5 foot 2 inches or 165cm.) and he does shoot fighting. I found that although I had been watching UFC and other instructional videos about how to get out of things it was totally different when we went to the ground. Sort of like we would laugh at someone that said" well ive seen VT so I can do it". Without the training to use the techniques it was like, I should be doing this but now I have to tap before my arm breaks. You need the reaction as an instinct in a split second to get the escape. or a good guy is going to snap you. But I found just having someone lie on you and the smothering was weird to get used to. Also knowing when you have to tap and when you can still escape is a hard feeling to get and is only possible with training.
I have found interestingly that the main diference between BJJ and shootfighting is that shooters do things to hurt you to get the position and resist the moves being put on them were as BJJ tends to wait until the opponent makes a mistake or slows down and tends to roll and move with the movement not resist. This may be wrong but just the impression that I get.:frowning: