habeo catapultum…
I know a little latin too, heh heh heh…
“The root word of placebo is the same as in ‘please’”
Yup. I think it means, I will please, or something similar…
“Science always sells the placebo efffect short and durgs long and expensive. Western medicine has gone to great efforts to squelch the progress of qigong because if it did work, imagine what that would do the the high price of medicine? The emiprie of western medicine far outweighs the empire of all the qigong masters combined. Just compare viagra and iron crotch qigong.”
I’m not sure what you mean, Gene…I think there are lots of factors in all of this, and I hate to sound like I was generalizing by lumping things into broad catagories, but hey, we’re having a conversation and not composing doctoral thesis statements, so…imagine if Chi Kung DID work, and it was testable, and the research was clinical and sound, don’t you think these massive pharmaceutical companies you mention would be dumping tons of money into it so as to own it as their own? Do you know of any companies actually trying to squelch qigong practice? I mean, if you look at pharmacology, it continually mines traditional medical systems for the means of fighting disease and ailments. Look how many natural products that are prominent in TM that find their way into pharmacology. It’s a lot. So the paradigm is there. They’re already involved and using traditional knowledge. Some of it is quite good and useful, but much of it is bunk. Like drinking ground up turtle ***** in chamomile tea to give me an iron rod when I’m 95 with no teeth, heh heh heh…
“But let’s take it from a more rudimentary point of view - the western paradigm discounts the placebo effect even though it’s measurable and easily replicatable. Suppose qigong is all just placebo - if the patient shows progress, is that so bad?”
I agree that some aspects of western medecine just don’t care to think about placebo…and that they need a warmer approach which is inviting about more traditional systems- but there has been study after study regarding placebo so it is something that is entering the mind stream, so to speak…there’s lots of info out there. Is it so bad? That is the question. In many cases, I don’t think so…but now you are getting into Pragmatic Fallacy, and that’s a real moral trip. When a potential student (mark) is told they might die if they go to a cheaper master to cure their cancer, and that master really can’t state for an ABSOLUTE FACT, that his qigong can cure cancer any better than another (because it’s placebo effect mostly) then I think that is wrong. Now you couple this with some newspaper lighting up, some chop stick chopping or some incredible chi leg exercise (where someone holds up three people on a bent leg- it’s funny, my mom can do it and this shot is pictured prominently on on e Qigong Grandmaster of the Year’s website) and you can probably see why I am a little upset. Because I DO believe in chi conceptually…I’ve seen my own teacher do some pretty freakin amazing things, and he’s subjected himself to the scientific method and come out shining…but his claims seem more in line with what I think chi is. I mean, looking at it logically, what other medecine takes care of all the symptoms and conditions chi can heal? And HOW does it heal? By correcting imbalance? By directing the body to heal itself? Then why aren’t these guys immortal? The term chi itself is so loaded, how anyone can keep track of what people actually mean when they say it I have no idea. Sometimes it’s acupuncture, sometimes it’s NTKOs, sometimes it’s reading minds or dispersing clouds or all of the above. Most of that is probably harmless and maybe even some good is done- except to pocket books- but this cancer person, this person may spend valuable time that could be spent on known, effective treatments, on something that may work if his mind tricks himself, or not…
You see, most of the people who go for the eastern stuff are those who are psychologically predisposed to be taken advantage of because they have tried everything, or they are attracted to the mystical east. I have tinitis, for example, from being a DJ. Man, there were times, let me tell you, I thought I was going insane from it. That’s when you have a constant ringing in your ears. I’d love for chi to heal me, but I know why I have it- it’s not because of an energy imbalance- it’s because my eardrums are damaged. I’ve since been able to train my mind to deal with it, and I have to thank Shi Yan Ming for hooking that up. If the vast majojrity of these qigong grandmasters were poor itinerants, or used their vast sums of money to set up cancer wards, maybe it would lend credence to their abilities and claims. But they charge an arm and a leg, and then go back to Asia. In Thailand you can live like a KING for like, 300-500 bucks a month. BIG property, live in cook and servants. Now figure most of these guys are getting a grand or so a head, and there’s 10-15 in an ‘intensive’ seminar, and man…we’re in the wrong line of work. And the tell you if you don’t or can’t pay for the course, you’re undeserving of the teaching! What kind of logic is that? It’s the logic of the scam.
“The key here is the very nature of the placebo effect - it’s a term that science has coined for the power of suggestion. Perhaps qigong is just a suggestion. In these dark times, I’ll take a positive suggestion over a negative result.”
Me too. But at what financial cost? Some of these “intensive” qigong courses will run you like 2 large, easy! The way it is all set up, it’s so easy to see through if you have just a little bit of knowledge as to how people run scams. And again, when you got some guy eating glass or lighting newspaper on fire, and he gets a Qigong Grandmaster of the Year Award, what does that do for the integrity of the field? It undermines it dramatically. If I were a western Dr. and I saw someone do that, I would dismiss qigong as a whole because there’s no consistency to it.
“Surely there are snake oil salesman thorughout martial arts, but I dont’ think you can throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to qigong healing. Within China, it is a healthy part of their therapeutic paradigm. It will be so here too, no matter if we harbor western scientific prejudices against its progress. Qigong is rising where western medicine is failing.”
I agree with most of this too…there are obvious benefits to training, both psychological and physical. I don’t think, and don’t know, anyone who casts a critical eye on qigong who would say it was totally worthless, or without great benefits. And like I’ve said, I;ve seen the results of a scientific test the results of which I am totally comfortable labeling as being involved with chi. But I think that we can get and understand those benefits without some guy in fancy silk pajamas and tennis shoes chopping chopsticks in half with 20s…that would be the bathwater…
To the other poster- forgive me I forgot your name- I don’t think you need to be a “commie” to see Falun Gong for what it is.
