[QUOTE=tc101;1268197]That’s all model level stuff and has nothing to do with application.[/QUOTE]
No. Application is exactly what I’m talking about.
[QUOTE=LFJ;1268266]No. Application is exactly what I’m talking about.[/QUOTE]
Can you point me to a video clip of some one sparring or fighting non wing chun guys using this remarkable subtle elbow contraction jum sau that comes from Leung Bik? No? Then it isn’t application. Application is actually sparring or fighting that’s when you are really applying wing chun.
[QUOTE=tc101;1268275]Can you point me to a video clip of some one sparring or fighting non wing chun guys using this remarkable subtle elbow contraction jum sau that comes from Leung Bik? No? Then it isn’t application.[/quote]
If you don’t see a clip of it, it’s not application? And who the hell are you?
Application is actually sparring or fighting that’s when you are really applying wing chun.
No sh!t, fool. For a guy who harps on this in every posts, no matter the topic or the comment it’s in response to, you have a remarkably empty Youtube account.
[QUOTE=LFJ;1268281]If you don’t see a clip of it, it’s not application? And who the hell are you?
No sh!t, fool. For a guy who harps on this in every posts, no matter the topic or the comment it’s in response to, you have a remarkably empty Youtube account.[/QUOTE]
I don’t claim to be any one just a guy that does’t swallow things he’s told but only believes what he sees. Application is really using your wing chun it’s not how you think it will work or what you think you will do that is only the model but what you are really doing. My asking for a clip is my way of saying you are not seeing it really used in sparring or fighting like that it is just how you think things should work. That’s why it is model level wing chun. There’s nothing wrong with that.
If you want clips of wing chun fighters you can look at the Orr guys. Do you see the jum sau with your subtle elbow movement used? No and there is a reason.
The thing about really sparring or fighting is much of the time you cannot do the things you want but need to deal with what your opponent is doing and giving you. Most opponents will not give you the kinds of shots that your subtle elbow action jum sau can deal with. The model is not application it’s not how things really work. Here’s the other thing I can’t tell you how to apply your wing chun. No one can. You have to work that out for yourself through sparring. It’s the same in boxing. But I can tell you what sorts of things will not work and you can get a good idea for yourself by looking at fights. If you don’t see it there is usually a very good reason.
Yes, I do see the Orr guys using the elbow in much the same way as it is done in my lineage. You have no idea what I’m even talking about. All you can do is repeat your “mantra”. It’s your standard response to any post regardless of the topic.
[QUOTE=LFJ;1268287]Yes, I do see the Orr guys using the elbow in much the same way as it is done in my lineage. You have no idea what I’m even talking about. All you can do is repeat your “mantra”. It’s your standard response to any post regardless of the topic.[/QUOTE]
Really? Can you point me to a specific clip and time so that I can better see what you are talking about?
[QUOTE=tc101;1268290]Really? Can you point me to a specific clip and time so that I can better see what you are talking about?[/QUOTE]
He breaks it down in his DVD series. It’s a subtlety that’s not given as much attention in other lineages, or simply doesn’t exist because they’re all hand and wristy. Once you know what to look for you can see it being used by all his fighters.
I think an “excluding” or “cutting” punch from the outside essentially is a Jum Sao continuing on to hit with the fist. Or at least it uses the subtle sinking with the elbow that I think LFJ is talking about. Alan shows this alot in his videos.