Propaganda

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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(DISCLAIMER: Please do not participate in any serene, open-minded discussion if you are easily offended! The purpose of any topic is not to define what is “right” or “wrong”, rather to share and discuss different personal opinions of truth, reality, and religious beliefs/practices, regardless of basis.)

I think that stories like this, about secret teachings and other political propaganda can be damaging towards WC. Now, I must admit I can’t confirm or discount what William Cheung is saying, no one can, but I think that saying that he was taught a secret style is disrespectful to other WC masters.

Maybe it would be a bit more diplomatic for him to say that he was shown and taught another interpretation of WC. That would be a little bit less of a propaganda statement, more of a discussional point.

I do think that most people are able to rise above the politics, but for other people looking in from other martial arts, or any lay person (excuse the term) we must seem like immature brats.

Phew…just released a rant there. Sorry about this, it’s just I have seen posts that slag off other WC styles in other forums and it always comes down to the old argument “I got taught a secret technique..” what a joke

Maybe it was true in the biginnig I don’t know, but if they have been shown a secret technique, then who’s to say that other students haven’t? After all, there are many WC practitioners out there. Sorry again for the rant, I will leave the podium…

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It’s called marketing

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It’s not just William Cheung. It’s 90% of the sifu out there. It’s just part of the culture. Even the ones who don’t make big claims in public/print can still be very hard to take privately. But then again, they have so much invested in themselves, they probably really have to believe their hype.

Also, I don’t think it’s only marketing. Not many make real money of WCK. It’s image and face which is their currency, and they get their payoff in the reflected adulation of their students.

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Funny how it often ends up earning them the spite and hatred of ex-students. (Strange that they didn’t see it coming…:smiley: )

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I love when people give wake up calls to some of these so called masters.
Here is a proverb-“a fools mouth invites a beating”:smiley:

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Twenty years ago called and wants its thread back.

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I know what you mean. This whole thing has been discussed to death through the years on this forum.
Phil

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Andrew and Phil,

to be clear, when I posted above, I had a certain “ALMIGHTY” grandmaster in mind.

Many ex-members of his org. tend to be especially bitter for one reason or another, (and for some sick reason of my own, I seem to find it rather amusing.)

-L

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to be clear, when I posted above, I had a certain “ALMIGHTY” grandmaster in mind.

You’ve made that very clear indeed now, Lawrence. :wink: Though as you said, he ain’t Robinson Crusoe or Tom Hanks.

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Ex-students typically don’t matter and for interestingly much the same reason: pride.

When one group of students leave, another comes along and they are typically told they are the true special ones, the others were traitors who were never taught the true real super secret stuff anyway, and the new ones become (sometimes even more tightly) emeshed.

And the cycle can repeat over and over again. Look at some groups (martial and otherwise) which have done this for 50+ years and thousands and thousands of students (who still don’t believe their 300lbs uni-lingual Ultra-sifu-sensei didn’t really train in a secret Lama cave in Africa and learn the 900 complete Fists of the First Emporer or aliens or whatever).

Many students, due to deficits in their own background, really want to believe in something, martial arts have a cache, and a mutial need (worshipers for the instructor, a special father figure/family group for the student) gets filled.

Dr. Phil should really do a show! :slight_smile:

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When sifu’s promote themselves by putting other teachings down they might get some quick marketing and exposure from it, but in the long run it seems to backfire on them and their markiting empire. eg emin vs william and they also loose a lot of respect from the mma community

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I am expressing MY OWN THOUGHTS. Like it or not. It is a free country I think.

I will share with you my observation. Ling Ting his ma bu looks ineffective. He leans too far back and from my own experience. The power from Ting’s ma bu will collapse and the power will come back at me when I attempt to strike or even use tan sao etc. He is under the block paradigm which to me is at a disadvatange and his foot work in general isn’t that good to me.

William Cheung, his whole system is based on things which is kind of silly to me. His blocking eye drills. Focusing on the elbows and knees when fighting is actually not practical. Test it out. Look at a boxer throw different punches at you while looking at his elbows, you will not have a chance if he ain’t playing.

His so called foot work and even style is more like prearrange karate hard and rigid. It is not
flexibile and adaptable wing chun gung fu of Yip Man’s senior students. His sao is very weak and lacks structure. The application of his tan sao, bong sao, and fok sao lacks real structure. It may look the same, but it looks strong but it aint. And if you were weaker you can’t apply traditional wing chun’s tan, bong, and fok sao.

Finally, then his story of wing chun. Well that is totally bs to me. Anyone who studied his story knows something ain’t right there. In the end, Mr. Cheung is calling Yip Man a liar after his death. Too bad we can’t go to Yip Man’s grave and asked if Cheung’s telling the truth.

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Ling Ting his ma bu looks ineffective. He leans too far back

this is not exclusive to Leung Ting either as many seem to do this and many have been taught to do this

as to the criticisms of the hands, I agree in certain aspects such as the bong done that way losing the spring, corkscrew motion that makes it so useful and efficient for redirecting…makes it clumsy and awkward and weak at the wrist, the tan which lose control with the wrist and not allowing it to “catch and hold” the bridge and makes it more about wrist fighting force rather than elbow absorbing force…his tendency to like going from the inside back to the outside before attacking, these things I personally disagree with etc Nothing to do with “traditional” or “modified”, but about technique and what seems better structured and useful.

however it seems the bigger deciding factor in it’s utility has to do with the individual. the person who trains better (more often, more realistically, etc) will be better off regardless of how they perform their hands. in the end the differences are not THAT large. in a real confrontation aspects like that matter alot less than most think. so william cheung style vs HK VT Association style is more about the individual and how he applies what he has learnt. minor differences make minimal difference at the end of the day. the flavour of both is still wing chun.

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I’ll start off by saying this: the more he posts - the more I sense the presence of an often banned nerd/Steiner point theory wannabe named NELSON MARCELLINO…not Dave Mead.

And here is one of the tip-offs, as this Marcellino character used to constantly say things about William Cheung’s TWC approach that clearly indicated that he has NO CLUE about real hard sparring/fighting:

“William Cheung, his whole system is based on things which is kind of silly to me. His blocking eye drills. Focusing on the elbows and knees when fighting is actually not practical. Test it out.”

***HAVE TESTED IT OUT hundreds of times, during real hard contact sparring
and occasionally on the street - AND IT WORKS LIKE A CHARM. :wink:

But you, Nelson, wouldn’t know that- since you can’t fight your way out of a paper bag! :stuck_out_tongue: :rolleyes: :cool:

And then there’s this gem:

“His so called foot work and even style is more like prearrange karate hard and rigid. It is not flexibile and adaptable wing chun gung fu of Yip Man’s senior students. His sao is very weak and lacks structure. The application of his tan sao, bong sao, and fok sao lacks real structure. It may look the same, but it looks strong but it aint. And if you were weaker you can’t apply traditional wing chun’s tan, bong, and fok sao.”

***EVERY WORD PRINTED THERE is false; and in fact, this paragragh, from start to finish, is SO off the mark that I won’t even bother refuting it point-for-point.:slight_smile:

Suffice it to say that TWC footwork, tan, bong, etc. brings quite a bit to the fighting table THAT ACTUALLY WORKS, Nelson…as opposed to the garbage that you tried to sell us through the posts of Cedric Grayson…

Steiner Point Theory!!! What a joke that was! :smiley:

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Well Victor I doubt you have ever done any full contact fights, your point sparring video shows it all the truth that you have no skills. No I am not Nelson , Dave Mead Cedric ,Underdog ect… Yes I have fought many full contact fights my last fight was over two years ago where I am still healing from a knee surgery from that fight. Its just not Cheungs system there are many othe4rs that really cannot fight like I said your video showed that. Since you like to act like a two year old here I will no longer respond to your silly remarks.
i HAVE BEEN PM BY AT LEAST TEN PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM ABOUT YOU.
You truly need to grow up. You are not that respected here

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Jive all you want, Nelson…no doubt you’re very good at that.

But I know it’s you.

And the more you post - the more others will see what I see.

So keep it up! :wink:

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Don’t have much time, but I couldn’t help but reply to this one…

I respectfully disagree with the above. Regardless of how GM Cheung demonstrates his TWC to the public, a thorough review of the systems concepts, principals and technique shows something different to the above post. For example, the elbow and knee watching. What else would you tell us to watch, Sirus? What are the main attacking tools used by human beings? Arms and legs. Not many people get knocked out by a chest attack… Cheung proved his theory scientifically when they analyzed his punching action back in the 80’s(how many other WC masters have done the same, and let science prove what they preach?). The elbows and knees move slower than the fist and foot, so therefore paying attention to them, the main weapons, will provide one with faster recognition of what is taking place in a combat situation. This does not mean one focuses strictly on the elbows/knees with tunnel vision. Everything else is seen as well, but the intention is concentrated more on two particular points. I’ve used this method for 17yrs and so have others with much more combat experience than I successfully.

As for GM Cheung’s credentials, I find it funny when other WC people put them down. Bruce Lee seemed to believe in him, even up to the point of his death, and not just when he was a young man.

Gotta run…

James

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Disgustingly true…

Funny how no one questions that any ex-member actually ever got any of the “real stuff”, -especially in WT (Emin, Fong, Pfaff, Iadarola, Tassos, Reimers, etc.). As if any average WT d0rk is going to learn something that these ex-“chosen ones” weren’t privy to. -Hahahahaa (Dude, I hope you are a millionaire if you want to know what’s “real” in WT!)

:smiley:

I personally don’t care for Dr. Phil much because I think he is one of those types that if he was a wing chun guy, would be calling himself “Grandmaster McGraw”, or whatever…

:frowning:

-Lawrence

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I personally don’t care for Dr. Phil much because I think he is one of those types that if he was a wing chun guy, would be calling himself “Grandmaster McGraw”, or whatever…

Dr Phil makes a prominent appearance in “SHAM: How the Self-Help Movement made America Helpless”, by Steve Salerno.

I’m tempted to write to Mr Salerno and suggest he do a similar book on MA.

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He can call it “KWAJ: How Kool-Aid has made Wing Chun in America a Joke.” :slight_smile:

-Lawrence