This subject was discussed on another forum. I just wanted to share an old Black Belt Magazine article.
From BLACK BELT MAGAZINE, July, 1974: “Karate in Prison: Menace, or Means of Spiritual Survival?” by Anne Darling and James Perryman, p. 21: Another ex-inmate says the first time he ever saw a karate technique was in Coxsacki, a New York prison, in 1948. “The different prisons had and still have their own fighting styles,” he says. They were prison martial arts, not traditional styles. In fact, Kid Gavilan (world welterweight boxing champion, 1951-54) used a Coxsacki variation, and Floyd Patterson’s peekaboo style was a Coxsacki variation, too. Because of limited space in prison, we learned wall-fighting techniques. Then a lot of former G.I.s in the joint had learned hand-to-hand combat - they came home, styled it, made it hip, and gave it soul." Miguel “Miky” Pinero, while an inmate of Sing-Sing, wrote a play called “Short Eyes” about the killing of a sex offender in a house of detention. The play is now a smashing success at the Public Theater in New York. Pinero describes his introduction to prison martial arts: "The first thing I did in the joint was to check out the style and learn to fight with a home piece - somebody from my neighborhood on the streets. I learned the Woodbourne shuffle, an evasion technique that first was used in the joint at Woodbourne and got passed around. Then I learned wall-fighting, and somebody taught me the Comstock style. The Comstock style, named for an upstate New York prison, involves what one inmate calls “the use of dirty fighting techniques.” The object is to lure an opponent into thinking he is going to get a “fair one - then go for a quick, sneak kick to the ankle, kneecap, or family jewels.” (End of Black Belt article)
This is something WC people in the States shoudn’t sleep on. These guys are really good and the techniques in some JHR is very similar to WC, (ie. trapping and simultaneous blocking and striking). They have an advantage of fighting for real in prison where their lives are at stake. Here is a link to some info on it. I have seen them fight fro real in NYC. They learn how to spit razorbaldes hidden under their tongues between their fingers and comense to swing at you limbs or face yelling out the number of stitches you will get. Most WC people will probably not take this seriously. All I say is don’t get caught out there. JHR is widespread.
Phil
I’ve never heard about the razor thing, but what I’ve seen of jailhouse is vicious. There’s a version of it in the south that’s known as “knockin and kickin”
not entirely the same topic,but there is a wck article on the
net [somewhere],where a prison guard talks about using
his wck against the inmates.[when needs be,obviously].he
goes on to say,that many inmates know some ma,and wck
is good for the restricted area limits in a cell or prison.and
the inmates seem to semi -respect the man.
What I find significant about all this is that it shows where fighting arts come from and where they develop – among the people doing the fighting. In other words, they don’t develop among the gentry or the scholars (theoreticians) but among the folks that use it day-in and day-out, soldiers, prisoners, ruffians, etc. (the fighters). The people (actors) of the Red Boats were among the lowest class, cavorting with criminals, prostitutes, etc.
And it also shows how fighting arts develop – not in one fell-swoop, but drawing on many sources that different people have found useful in fighting, that someone else “steals” for themselves, etc. and dropping those things that don’t work. In other words, by a natural process of evolution (development) over time.
One of my most senior advanced students (about 12 years now)…and with a background in kickboxing before he came to my school…has been working on Rikers Island for many years now (at least 10 years).
Rikers, as every New Yorker knows, is a prison.
His name is Myron Young…35 years old, stands 6’2" and weighs 205. In fact…it’s Myron who you will see with me on the first set of videos I’ll be posting within the next few days.
Myron teaches art to the inmates at Rikers, as there are many prisoners incarcerated who are still at high school age - and by state law they must be given an education while incarcerated.
Can’t begin to tell you how many times Myron has come to class with a new story of…(or asking advice about)…various kinds of attacks he’s been subjected to in the classroom, or out in a hallway somewhere.
Funny you should say that Terence. I was fairly new at WC when I first heard of Jail House boxing and 52 Blocks. I used to watch the guys in Brooklyn who just got out of Rikers Island (Prison) box in the streets bare knuckle. They would do what at the time I thought looked like WC. They had paks saus, simultaneous blocks/strikes, shin kicks, elbows, headbutts, and knees. They even had element of CLF diagonal (pow choi) strikes. Like you said, they learned out of neccessity. No games or theory but by trial and error. Not that theory isn’t important. ; Anyway, I took one of my WC bros to the “hood” because he didn’t believe they could be effective without "formal training. Long story short he used to come to Brooklyn on weekends to learn.
Phil
Victor, remember Jesse? He was a CO at Rikers. Did your student tee you stories of who the inmates would hide razor blades in pockets they cut inside their jaws? They were able to spit a razor form their mouth between their fingers and slap someone across the face with the razor. There are still underground Pitt fights in some neighborhoods that would make UFC and NHB look civil.
Phil
Victor,
That is very interesting. Does your student use more techs. that he has found to be more effective than others. It would seem that he would employ more trapping skills for controlling the inmates… or maybe he just pounds em?
Originally posted by Airdrawndagger Victor,
That is very interesting. Does your student use more techs. that he has found to be more effective than others. It would seem that he would employ more trapping skills for controlling the inmates… or maybe he just pounds em?
If a CO hits a prisoner he can be charged with assualt. The guys I know that work inside learn grappling moves so they can restrain instead of strike. One of ny old TWC bros got many charges against him for “defending” himself against prisoners in Rikers.
PR
My opinion is if they weren’t trying to fight the guards…they wouldnt be hit. Better yet, if they weren’t such scum, they wouldn’t be there to begin with.
Screw em. I have no sympathy for anyone in jail, they put themselves there.
I think guards should have full authority to do whatever is necessary to keep themselves safe from harm against people who obviously are not civil.
That’s just crazy that they can file assault if the guard chooses to strike to defend himself. Just ridiculous.
Just something I wanted to ask about Phil, and please don’t think I’m trying to start anything…
But this is a fighting system (not a martial art because there’s no art involved) that was developed in jail, and then based on what I read in some of those JPGS, only taught to african americans?
Isn’t that sort of…racist and demeaning since it was something that was developed in jail? The guy in the article mentioned he wouldnt teach it to the cops because he said the cops will turn it on them…or something to that effect.
52 blocks is just straight up street fighting developed pragmatically over years of experiment in prison and on the streets of NY I guess?
Originally posted by Vankuen Just something I wanted to ask about Phil, and please don’t think I’m trying to start anything…
But this is a fighting system (not a martial art because there’s no art involved) that was developed in jail, and then based on what I read in some of those JPGS, only taught to african americans?
Isn’t that sort of…racist and demeaning since it was something that was developed in jail? The guy in the article mentioned he wouldnt teach it to the cops because he said the cops will turn it on them…or something to that effect.
52 blocks is just straight up street fighting developed pragmatically over years of experiment in prison and on the streets of NY I guess?
I don’t think it could be classified as a martial art in the traditional sense. So you’re right there. It’s a fighting system like you said.
It’s always good to know what’s out there though. You never want to get caught off guard.
Capoiera (which is from Angola), was only taught to Africans in Brazil at one time. It was their only form of protection at the time. It just so happens that the majority of inmates in the U.S. prison system are minorities. The people that had a need to survive in NYC jails are most likely Puerto Ricans, blacks, etc. So I don’t think racism had anything to do with it.
PR
Originally posted by Vankuen
[B]Just something I wanted to ask about Phil, and please don’t think I’m trying to start anything…
But this is a fighting system (not a martial art because there’s no art involved) that was developed in jail, and then based on what I read in some of those JPGS, only taught to african americans?
Isn’t that sort of…racist and demeaning since it was something that was developed in jail? The guy in the article mentioned he wouldnt teach it to the cops because he said the cops will turn it on them…or something to that effect.
52 blocks is just straight up street fighting developed pragmatically over years of experiment in prison and on the streets of NY I guess? [/B]
from what I’ve been told about 52, comstock, knockin and kickin, JHR, etc. It does have it’s roots in african arts. I know a guy who trains silat as his primary art, but also has training in capoeira and 52. He draws alot of parallels between 52 and the infighting of capoeira… He will only teach black students, and even then, he’s picky about who he trains.
Theres been much talk of 52 hands, jailhouse,etc…I’d definately like to learn them from ex cons and its not surprising that they develop and refine these types of systems.
Interestingly I think that these were mentioned in the book Street Kingdom by douglas century. Lo and behold I found some postings by doug over at mma.net under the history forum. Nose around there I’m sure some excellent sources will pop up.
Also read FIST, STICK, KNIFE GUN by Joe Canada I believe. Sprinkled throughout are some insights into “street training” and the skills thugs employ…they included what can only be sparring-either hard closed fist to the body, or open handed and to the face (which anyone can tell you aint necesarily a light blow.) I seem to recall some lines about folks using broken bottles and car antennaes.
Street thugs seem to me the worst opponents for one simple reason-sheer unpredictability.
Vans right, there is probably an element of racism, as many prisons have racial problems and segregation. Depending on where you are race may be EVERYTHING , regardless of how you feel as an individiual. Recently the state of CA was sued for allegedly segregating prisoners by race, the state said it was only for inprocessing, but many COs have said that NO, its done all the time and is absolutely necesary to avoid violence. Certainly the blacks/negroes/AMs would be unwilling to share their knowledge of fighting, even after getting on the outside, when faced with that type of environment. Survival is paramount.
As an idea I think it would be great to see a website dedicated tos street/jail tactics and especially with pics of the attacks. I learned 4 really nasty knife attacks that basically come from that type of arena and they were unlike anything I have exprienced in FMAs. If for no other reason that to get the info “out there” so folks (and COs/LEOs) can have a better understanding of what to expect.
The idea of those incarcerated training in some type of combative system is nothing new nor is it restricted by race or location. I remeber seeing films done at Folsom Prison showing inmates practicing on how to reverse from a wall search position to attack an officer frisking them.
I think that if you consider the nature of prisons and the environments you will find that martial arts as a whole would never work in that environment. Aside from the case of an all out riot most conflicts will be very short lived as the guards would intervene. In most cases I think study will find that the attacks come quickly and unexpectedly, often with a shank stuck into and broken off in the “victim”. Prolonged conflict is unlikely so this type of training and environment actually presents a good case for “conditioning” not being the determining factor in a fight, imho. Of course, having said that I also recognize that most inmates will have a great deal of time to devote to conditioning and will do so, not only for the physical exercise but as a means to pass the time. I remeber working in a county prison and watching inmates do push-ups using a deck of cards to determine the number. Each face card represented the number of push ups to be done and they continued on in this pattern until the entire deck was completed. I think you will find that most inmates and or those recently released will be in far better condition than the average person on the street, and even then many LEO’s.
Again, the tactics and methods trained and taught are geared not for prolonged combat but for quick ending of conflicts. The result will most often be death or serious bodily injury. Prolonged conflict is not a desired situation either within prison nor on the street. Another factor is that in many cases the actual attacker would not want to be easily identified and thus the attacks would be sneaky and again very quick. After all why have more charges and time added on top of what you are already facing and the other inmates will not be likely to point out the attacker.
I am sure that the tactics learned in prison are brought to the street. I do not think they will represent a “system” per se but more of a mindset with a few serious and deadly technigues geared towards seriously injuring your opponent.
Of course, this is just my opinion based on my limited experience. I would however be interested in other viewpoints.