[QUOTE=Kellen Bassette;1259568]This is my experience, and has been echoed by all the fighters I know.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, sadly there is a huge faction of guys who think chi sao is " combat " and have no bridge to actually using misguided hand chasing errors to function in striking, moving, random exchanges. Put them into a situation that doesn’t start with two arms rolling and you get kickboxing hand bag waving.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1259571]Good stuff ; ) MK is fast. The knife sparring will probably get the same criticism ; )[/QUOTE]
They are moving with live energy. They are properly geared up at times showing they are acclimatizing to harder striking sparring. The knife sparring is properly geared with live movements.
You can kind of see the newer guy tense up on impact and lose vision and mobility. But that will change within a few months if they keep doing these types of sparring rounds.
Good enough criticism for you?
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1259585]They are moving with live energy. They are properly geared up at times showing they are acclimatizing to harder striking sparring. The knife sparring is properly geared with live movements.
You can kind of see the newer guy tense up on impact and lose vision and mobility. But that will change within a few months if they keep doing these types of sparring rounds.
Good enough criticism for you?[/QUOTE]
Never good enough, keep practicing Wayfaring and one day , who knows you may become a master critic.
One day you may make the perfect mindless critique ; )
Criticize hard my friend.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1259563]I have no interest in such things and my sparring is just fine. Fortunately enough my street fights have gone in my favor. Really that’s all that matters to me. Wing Chun in the cage or cross training or whatever…
For your average WC practitioner to think that he can walk from a WC school into a cage fight and expect to succeed is absurd. People would need to train like hell for such things.
There will be many competent fighters in the world that have never stepped in a ring or cage in their lives. I think the whole argument is stupid.[/QUOTE]
Sparring a MMA fighter isn’t like getting into a cage with a bear or anything. Is it true in the UK that the ammy fighters do open hand strikes to the head only? I mean really ALL Frost is talking about is getting acclimatized to harder contact. That basically is just one skill set or attribute only. Like yesterday I caught a knee to the mouth pretty hard grappling. It was hard but not concussion hard or injure something hard. Because of mma sparring conditioning my reaction was “whoa - got rocked pretty good there” as opposed to “I’m dying call the wambulance, and I lost all my technique too”. Or revert to slap fighting or whatever.
Just go spar with some mma guys once in a while. It will not be that big of a deal after the first couple sessions.
MK knows what hard sparring is.
He’s done plenty of it and plenty of it against people other than his students, i.e. people that really wanted to beat him.
And he has never “fallen apart” and started to do bad kick boxing.
He got a few broken ribs once from an MMA guy that stopped by for a friendly exchange, but not before he busted up the guys face…
My brother trains regularly with MMA professionals in Shanghai, where he lives.
Just talked to him today, and he told me he sparred last night against a young MT guy with six pro fights under his belt.
He then added that in comparison, MK is still the scariest person he has ever sparred against.
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1259590]Sparring a MMA fighter isn’t like getting into a cage with a bear or anything. Is it true in the UK that the ammy fighters do open hand strikes to the head only? I mean really ALL Frost is talking about is getting acclimatized to harder contact. That basically is just one skill set or attribute only. Like yesterday I caught a knee to the mouth pretty hard grappling. It was hard but not concussion hard or injure something hard. Because of mma sparring conditioning my reaction was “whoa - got rocked pretty good there” as opposed to “I’m dying call the wambulance, and I lost all my technique too”. Or revert to slap fighting or whatever.
Just go spar with some mma guys once in a while. It will not be that big of a deal after the first couple sessions.[/QUOTE]
in the UK AM MMA has a few different versions, never heard of the palm strikes only one though, there are no headshot comps, 8oz gloves with no headshots on the ground etc but no palm only as far as I have seen.
[QUOTE=Sean66;1259592]MK knows what hard sparring is.
He’s done plenty of it and plenty of it against people other than his students, i.e. people that really wanted to beat him.
And he has never “fallen apart” and started to do bad kick boxing.
He got a few broken ribs once from an MMA guy that stopped by for a friendly exchange, but not before he busted up the guys face…
My brother trains regularly with MMA professionals in Shanghai, where he lives.
Just talked to him today, and he told me he sparred last night against a young MT guy with six pro fights under his belt.
He then added that in comparison, MK is still the scariest person he has ever sparred against.[/QUOTE]
Yep, the timing, striking power, use of strategy, speed, spatial awareness all in top condition with that guy 
[QUOTE=Graham H;1259618]Yep, the timing, striking power, use of strategy, speed, spatial awareness all in top condition with that guy ;)[/QUOTE]
Agreed. From what I’ve seen of him, he’s a perfect example of good VT in my opinion. He has the relentless attacking and overwhelming forward pressure thing down, made successful of course by the use of proper VT strategy.
[QUOTE=LFJ;1259620]Agreed. From what I’ve seen of him, he’s a perfect example of good VT in my opinion. He has the relentless attacking and overwhelming forward pressure thing down, made successful of course by the use of proper VT strategy.[/QUOTE]
Correct 
Another clip of MK
[QUOTE=Graham H;1259542]Would you call this forward pressure, trying to hit each other and no slapping??
[…]
[/QUOTE]
I really enjoyed that video, particularly the brief segment with the knives. Thanks.
On the video posted in the opening post; do people not find that more traditional guard / starting position a bit weak? Specifically, with that back hand resting on the other arm I’ve found it to be easily exploited.
[QUOTE=Paddington;1259666]Specifically, with that back hand resting on the other arm I’ve found it to be easily exploited.[/QUOTE]
Hello,
Not sure what lineage you trained in, I have trained in a few different lineages of Wing Chun.
In none of them was I taught to rest the back/rear hand on the other arm.
If you are referring to the Man Sau Wu Sau position there is a definite gap between the arms. The rear hand rests in line with the elbow of the front arm but does not touch or rest on it, at least not in how I was trained.
There are other arts which use a concept known as “double-hand” in which they will utilize both arms together with one being the support of the other. This is found in Silat and Kali to name a few and if trained properly they do not make it easy to exploit, IMHO.
EDIT: My apologies Paddington, I had not watched the video clip but upon viewing it I see what you are talking about. It does appear that the rear hand is kept very close to the front arm and there are spots where the rear hand actually touches the upper arm of the front arm. Not sure what that is all about, certainly not the way I was trained and I would think it would violate center-line as the rear hand would actually be off the mid line in order to touch the other arm.
He explains the guard in this video:
[QUOTE=Sihing73;1259670]I would think it would violate center-line as the rear hand would actually be off the mid [/QUOTE]
This guard requires a particular fight strategy as a whole with tactical footwork, angling, striking methods, timing, etc. which differ in a lot of Wing Chun systems. The importance of centerline is to protect and dominate, not necessarily to be sitting on the line. It can still be taken from you. This guard facilitates that as explained in the video.
[QUOTE=LFJ;1259683]He explains the guard in this video:
//youtu.be/ODmA3MsS9kU
[/QUOTE]
It’s an interesting idea, cutting down the attacking options of the opponent and giving them a way in (comparatively unguarded), so you pretty much know where they will attack and you will “always on the right side” when you intercept. (Kali uses a similar idea, only it leaves the centerline open to try and suck you in)
But I actually prefer the method of keeping Wu Sau in the center. Maybe the downside to the method Bonafe is showing is that it limits your options. The opponent will also know that you only have one option (one side) to deal with their attack.
[QUOTE=Sihing73;1259670] […]
EDIT: My apologies Paddington, I had not watched the video clip but upon viewing it I see what you are talking about. […][/QUOTE]
No problem, I am used to being misread! FYI I trained through one of the Sifus taught by Ip Chun but currently I am training without a Sifu and attempting to practice the WSL system.
[QUOTE=LFJ;1259683]He explains the guard in this video:
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the video I am giving it a watch now.
[QUOTE=BPWT.;1259686]It’s an interesting idea, cutting down the attacking options of the opponent and giving them a way in (comparatively unguarded), so you pretty much know where they will attack and you will “always on the right side” when you intercept. (Kali uses a similar idea, only it leaves the centerline open to try and suck you in)
But I actually prefer the method of keeping Wu Sau in the center. Maybe the downside to the method Bonafe is showing is that it limits your options. The opponent will also know that you only have one option (one side) to deal with their attack.[/QUOTE]
hung gar uses a similar idea, leaving an opening to try to draw the attack and the hakka arts begger hands also uses a similar approach leaving the centre apparently unguarded to draw the attack when you want it
[QUOTE=Frost;1259689]hung gar uses a similar idea, leaving an opening to try to draw the attack and the hakka arts begger hands also uses a similar approach leaving the centre apparently unguarded to draw the attack when you want it[/QUOTE]
So does SPM and Duncan Leung wing chun.
[QUOTE=BPWT.;1259686]it leaves the centerline open to try and suck you in …[/QUOTE]
This principle has been used in many MA styles.
[QUOTE=LFJ;1259684]This guard requires a particular fight strategy as a whole with tactical footwork, angling, striking methods, timing, etc. which differ in a lot of Wing Chun systems.[/QUOTE]
I get what he’s saying and it’s an interesting strategy. But, by by vacating center, this guard violates WC’s basic bai jong & centerline principles, as well as moving away from WC’s ideas of maximum efficiency (and also neutrality). Besides that, doesn’t wing chun’s 4 gate defense strategies with hands starting on center already cover what this guard is trying to solve?
[QUOTE=LFJ;1259684]The importance of centerline is to protect and dominate, not necessarily to be sitting on the line.[/QUOTE]
How can you have one without the other? Centerline theory doesn’t do you much good if you ignore it
Again, WC’s goals of maximum efficiency and economy of motion coupled with centerline theory typically dictate where the hands need to be.