I know it’s side presses, I just prefer bench pressing because despite what Pavel says, I think it’s an overall better exercise. Pavel and his comrades seems to look down upon down upon pec development.
Iron
I figured you did. Have you tried the floor bench press in the PTP book? What did you think? I don’t have a partner willing to get up early every weekday, so my bench press options are limited.
Also, some people have mentioned doing the deadlifts with dumbells instead of the barbell. Has anyone tried this or know about it? What are the advantages/disadvantages over the barbell?
a good forum for these questions is www.mixedmartialarts.com, the strength and conditioning forum. A lot of people love Pavels program, at least as a change of pace . Read what he has to say, he makes a LOT of sense.
“You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting”
Spinning Backfist
Have you tried the floor bench press in the PTP book? What did you think
I haven’t tried it, as I have access to benches here at school. I think, from looking at it, however, that the range of motion is about half that of a “real” bench press, so I would stay away from it if you have the chance to bench press.
Iron
jimmy23
we’re kung fu why would we go over there? they hate us anyway. This stuff normally sticks to the health/nutrition forum, but it seems as if today we graduated. 
IronFist
Picked up a powerlifter mag; along with a ton of other stuff. Really lookin forward to reading it, but there’s a lot i’m gonna read before getting to it. I can kinda see why Pavel might be against pec development. For me at least; it makes having a decent guard a bit hard- although I know there are a bunch of boxing heavyweights who have no problems. Lemme know if u find a copy of that interview.
Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.
if you ignore a great source of info , youre the one who loses. Youre not kung fu, youre a martial artist whose style is kung fu. Keep an open mind and learn , for life is short.
“You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting”
Spinning Backfist
Jimmy23 is correct.
“I can kinda see why Pavel might be against pec development. For me at least; it makes having a decent guard a bit hard- although I know there are a bunch of boxing heavyweights who have no problems. Lemme know if u find a copy of that interview.”
“Pec development” doesn’t necessarily mean a massive chest you can’t close your arms around to protect, it means stronger chest muscles. Strong muscles are not neccessarily big ones. Side presses do work the chest muscles, they just don’t work them as much as a bench does.
BTW, the power to the people routine is designed to make you stronger while adding as little extra muscle as possible.
Jimmy23
As qeysus said, there’s a Pavel forum on dragondoor.com
As a matter of fact, I was joking; but if you want to go there, fine. I don’t think that the guys on mixedmartialarts.com have anything to offer that’s so beyond what’s available here (the health/nutrition forum), dragondoor.com, anabolicextreme.com, and t-mag.com At least nothing worth wading through all those anti-traditional posts.
“Open mind” is a good one. 
hehe. Seems maybe that should go both ways. I don’t feel I’m the one being “close minded”. I respect you and don’t really want to get into an argument over this with you. So please don’t misunderstand the tone of this post.
You guys do what you do, we do what we do. I respect you, your record, and what you’ve accomplished. I know you do have respect for traditionalists yourself. But wading through rash generalizations, and blatant disrespect, made by folks who’ve only observed a non-representative sample of a collection of arts that I love is just not worth it.
Arguing with them is futile, they refuse to accept any concrete evidence contrary to their “truths”- even results from their own competitions (Sutton in UFC 6; Subitai and his experiences as well). So am I really the one being close-minded?
Unfortunately, it’s difficult for traditionalists to find a “haven” -a place for us to talk about what we do- without it getting taken-over by trolls from your camp.
So if you gotta know, I’m not going to sign on there, and help promote such viewpoints. I refuse to patronize that website in any way; even with the measly extra hit each day I’d provide by visiting.
Mr.Nemo
I think somewhere along the way something got fudged up. When I saw “development”; I was assuming it meant “increasing size”. As far as power goes: yah, you might not want to ignore bench.
When it comes to pushing power, the chest is kind of like a stabilizer- providing a strong foundation and some help to the arms which are doing more movement and thus more work. In which case, not working chest at all is a bad idea; i agree.
I’m not one of those people who says size = strength and vice versa; maybe go back to my other posts and see where i’m coming from.
BTW- Bear Training is in the P2P book from what I’ve heard (though I don’t have it); and that is a size routine. Also, you gotta admit, eventhough strength/power training is not the BEST way to increase muscle size, it CAN occur (to a lesser degree) as a “side-effect” of training.
I see where i was misunderstanding before. This is a “which is better for functional strength?” type of argument. I can see why someone would like bench more for functional strength.
Personally, my tris are not as developed (read “big”) as my chest; so the side press, which seems more reliant on tricep strength, seems better for me.
Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.
“I don’t think that the guys on mixedmartialarts.com have anything to offer that’s so beyond what’s available here (the health/nutrition forum), dragondoor.com, anabolicextreme.com, and t-mag.com At least nothing worth wading through all those anti-traditional posts.”
I think they definately have something extra. Places like anabolicextreme and t-mag aren’t specifically geared towards martial artists. Dragondoor’s kind of in-between, and this place is mostly traditionalists. You can get a different perspective on training at mixedmartialarts.com, if you want one.
Also, on the underground, there’s maybe one anti-traditional thread per 300 other threads. You don’t have to “wade through” thousands of kung fu-dissing threads to find gold. And the strength+conditioning board has been a gold mine of info for me.
the strength and conditioning board has only S & C advice, there is no dissing of traditionalist there. And, most of the dialogue is centered on combat prepparedness. BUt, do as you wish.
“You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting”
Spinning Backfist
jimmy23
I appreciate that you respect my opinion even if you don’t agree with it.
Mr.Nemo
The first place I even heard about Pavel was t-mag.com. They’ve had articles and interviews with Matt Furey and members of the Lion’s Den in addition to Pavel. T-mag has a lot of sports training and functional strength articles. They cover topics such as odd object lifting, plyometrics, and training for athletic performance. So, to tell you the truth, I don’t really agree with your assessment on the sites i listed. Maybe someday I’ll give that site a shot; but you’ll have a hard time convincing me that I’m missing a lot.
Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.
hi guys im not a born natural weight lifter, but if i could just squeeze in something , i believe what pavel does when he says train deadlift + benchpress every day for a week, Is working the body the way
- martial artists train it , think about it , we do 100 or 1000 punches every day of the week
- the way natural strength is buildt , if you look at arty farty fandangly body builders who go to a gym and practise 400 iseolation excersises that target muscle groups on the inside behind the calf muscle, their strength is usually quite inferior to a builder,(not body builder house builder) because a builder lifts bricks cement etc not to exhsution but constantly every day 5 days a week.
From my experiences from builders i have met they have a lot of power whereas these gym guys only pump up if the have dianabol for breakfast lunch and dinner.
I dont wanna sound racist in the next statement but this is the way i see why “brothers” have the best genetics nowadays, THey have the best basketballers boxers etc etc. The reason is because hundreads of years ago when the “brothers” were slaves it was survival of the fittest , and this everyday bombardment of manual labour strengthened the body excessively, so the body has to wake up and say if i dont grow strong i will die.
I believe this is one of the best ways to shock the body into really getting strong.
what do bin laden and general custer have in common???
They’re both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo
Wongsifu -
Lamarkian genetics has been proven false. If offspring could inherit their parents’ acquired traits, babies would be born with tattoos. Read Stephen Jay Gould or Richard Dawkins for details.
I am the Grand Ultimate Silk Pyjama
could you explain why the brothers in america are 7 foot 4 who can bench press 600 pounds , whereas the african dudes are still 4 foot pygmies ?
theye are the same brothers , I dont think its climate ???
what do bin laden and general custer have in common???
They’re both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo
Well, first off, they are not the same brothers; American blacks are mostly ‘adulterated’ with European genes. This doesn’t make them superior or inferior to their African cousins, though. To truly understand the degree of influence that environment has vs. that of genetics, we need to run studies of twins seperated since birth. There’s a small amount of research on this, for obvious reasons.
Secondly, not all Africans are the same (in fact, the human native population of Africa is the most genetically diverse of any continent) as an example, let me point out the four foot pygmy Hakeem Olajuwon of the Houston Rockets, native to Nigeria. You might also check which nation holds almost all the footrace world records (hint: it’s Kenya.) As an aside, Africa has such a diverse array of genotypes that basically no other continent has anything Africa doesn’t. In other worlds, you can make Europeans/Asians/Pacific Islanders/Native Americans by removing genes from Africans, but not the reverse. Again, this is not an argument for superiority - these populations evolved to their present states over thousands and perhaps millions of years adapting to their environments. A few hundred years and a dozen or so generations is insufficient to do the job (except possibly during periods of extreme environmental stress - punctuated equilibrium is a whole different argument, though.) These days further evolution is increasingly unlikely, as humans are more apt to adapt the environment to themselves than the reverse.
Uh, back on topic
Thirdly, climate may play a small role, but nutrition, medical care, and excercise play a much larger role.
Now, my interest in science is strictly PBS-level. I hope a real evolutionary biology expert can come in and clear up any mistakes I’ve made.
I am the Grand Ultimate Silk Pyjama
Oh my god, sweet… Larmackism on KFO.
I used to love Lamarckism, it’s so intellectually seductive for some reason. I think it’s just nice to believe that all our hard work will benefit our children. There is some saving grace, because Lamarck’s theories can probably be applied to things like cognitive evolution and sociology, as well as a few very limited biological cases like matriarchal immunological inheritance across the placenta.
Sorry… ramble over.
Braden -
Does this mean you didn’t find any egregious errors in my ramble? 
I am the Grand Ultimate Silk Pyjama
interesting , i dont buy it but ive heard stuff like this b4 thanks chang style
it would be nice if other ppl joined in though 
what do bin laden and general custer have in common???
They’re both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo
What’s not to buy? Do a google search on “Lamarck” and come to your own conclusions.
I am the Grand Ultimate Silk Pyjama
Chang: It’s not exactly my field, and my anthropology / cultural knowledge is obviously alot weaker than yours, but it sounded right to me.
People generalizing anything to “Africans” is one of my pet peeves; and the idea that humans are no longer evolving is one of those things which I love but don’t hear enough other people talk about, so your rant got me “turned on” to the conversation.
Wongsifu - I don’t exactly follow from the conversation what you are claiming, or what you are disbelieving; I’d be interested in finding out though. 