Has anyone learnt these, if so what do you think of the form?
where did it come from? clc, futsan, fukien?
shaolin master,
you dont need to reply as u have this set!
Have not learnt it but have heard of it.
While we are on the subject…
Is there not a long sword form in Pei Mei?
Is there a traditional Pei Mei weapon? (like double butterfly for Wing CHun?)
Some Bak Mei schools teach double gen (sais) in place of Butterfly Knives, applications I suppose are similar, though. It’s the concept that counts, everything in your hands will follow these principles, which reinforce the empty hand techniques. I heard that some schools also teach iron crutch (tonfas) any input?
tonfas
already been a thread on this.
Our school has it: double tonfas.
Pak Mei Weapons
I can’t speak for other lineages, but we have a medium stick to start, and an advanced long pole form which is supposed to be special. Something like the half past six fishing pole…
Sifu also taught me a double sword (sheng do) pattern that is not commonly seen, but it may come from that vast number of “generic” traditional weapons forms. I think our single do form is likewise, “non-denominational.”
Dragon Fork is another weapon that is often associated with Pak Mei, but I don’t know it.
Personally, I like nothing better than making a big Kwan Do sing like a little maiden. We do 2 forms.
EAZ, the Viet School here also does Tonfas, I believe. Cannon? SM? Can you correct me if I’m wrong?
We have a saying, “The hand is the mother, the stick is the father and all the other weapons are the children.”
yummy
wassup mate!
yeah vietnam bak mei has butterfly swords and tonfa’s. ykm has butterfly swords but i havent done tonfas they dont excite me like the rest of my daughters hahahah! hmmmm:D
dai pa- big fork is one of my favourites! basic and useful:D
FT
Double Butterfly Knives
Yes there is a double butterfly knives set as well as a double tonfa set.
Generally these forms are taught to the very senior students.
The weapon sets that are taught by my Pak Mei Sifu are:
Pak Mei Gwan
Double Tonfa
Double Butterfly Knives
Bench Chair
Kwan Dao
Tiger Fork
Short Sword and Sheild (Very, Very Closed Door Form)
We also have the Wu Shu weaponary such as the Broadsword, Straight Sword and Spear to give a flavour of weaponary to the junior students.
Generally you’ll find that the traditional Pak Mei weapons are taught to only a select few, that the Sifu deems as worthy.
Even then you most probably won’t learn all of the weaponary forms, unless your seen as the next student to become a Sifu, in the Pak Mei lineage.
Personally though, the weapons sets that I have learnt are:
Pak Mei Gwan, Double Tonfa’s and the Bench Chair.
Anyway thats just my two pennies worth of information for you.
The double butterfly sword form (Chui Warn Lao Yip Seung Doe) that I know is very short. The emphasis is like most things in Pak Mei on the swallow, spit, float, sink and the ging as manifested in the sudden flicking of the wrist. Its a very linear form in terms of foot work as it focuses on charging footsteps.
As I understand it, Pak Mei does not seem to pay too much attention to too much weapon work apart from the pole forms. Although the tiger fork seems quite popular.
Yum Cha: Yes, we do have a tonfa form but it does not come from Vietnam Pak Mei, it is from Cheung Bing Lum. Also we tend to practise the Cheung Bing Lum version of the double butterfly form instead of the Vietnam version. The Vietnam version has more moves in it and more flowery.
Just a point of clarification…
Hi Cannon, Dave thanks for coming to the party.
Double Butterfly knives -
Double Swords -
Are we talking about Sheng Do (Dao) the double dragon knives (as mentioned by Cannonfist), or are we talking about the double swords that are the shorter, thick, straight knives with the protection around the handle - I don’t know the chinese name. They look a bit more like choppers…
Thanks in advance.
Clarification
Hey Yum Cha,
The double butterfly knives are actually your latter choice,
the shorter, thick, straight knives with the protection around the handle
the ones that are poplarised by the Wing Chun people.
Ta Dave
Thats what I thought. Do you know the chinese name? Cantonese?
Or are both styles of weapon called Sheng Do?
Name of the form is:
Yum Cha,
The name of this form is: “Chui Warn Lao Yip Seung Dao”, although I’m not to certain on what the translation is.
Hope that helps.
In wing chun or Hung Gar the double choppers are called baat charm doe. But in Pak Mei we tend to call it Lao Yip Seung Doe. Chui Warn Lao Yip Seung Dao means “Chasing clouds aloevera (I think??) leaf double swords”.
Cannon fist
willow leaf i was told! lao yip jeung willow leaf palm!!
Fiercest Tiger!
Thanks, I think you might be right because I think I got my translation wrong.
I guess you have seen our double butterfly sword form, so is YKM’s one similar?? What are the differences??
In Bak Mei the Butterfly Swords are quite common, the form is called gJui Wun Lau Yip Seung Doh (cloud chasing willow leaf double swords). It is a long form with a lot of movements repeated in sets of gthreeh, and many movements where you change the swords to a greverse griph and brace it against the elbows. Many of the techniques are quite similar to the hand techniques: such as bui gim, sut choei, moh jaang, pow choei, etc. Do not confuse this form with gSei Moon Baat Gwa Seung Doh, which is the long broadswords.
Bak Mei has many weapons and they are all great forms. The difference of Bak Meifs weapons from other styles is that all the techniques, regardless of the weapon, comes from the body. If it looks like it could be a different style then it is definitely not Bak Mei, it is impossible to confuse it when done correctly.
Kei Lun
Cannon fist
hope all is well with you and chow sifu?
I have your butterfly swords,straight sword, tonfas, sticks, hand sets on video from over the years of demos at the barbaque king tourneys.
The ykm swords are different and i learnt this from a elder brother from the american ykm school! it kinda looks the same when you go down and chop, switch grips etc
very basic but effective!!
FT,
Do you fight with weapons or just have 2-man sparring sets ?
Also, how do you go about it ?
Kei Lun,
sets of three often are a Bak Mei favorite with distinct origins in the Hakka fists fundamentals.
However are Bak Mei weapons more weighted at combat or at reinforcing empty hand concepts ?
Was Chueng Lai Chun well known for weapons or was it empty hands ?
[PS Yes the old concept of weapons are an extension of the limbs lalala is valid but realistically the best weapons fighter was not necessarily the best empty hand one and vice versa]
shaolin master
In class i bring out knives, base ball bats, sticks, all against empty hand or weapon!
i teach 1st how to fight with the body, then move on to seizing and grappling then knife or edge and blunt weapons.
ykm has a 2 man form for machine gun vs switch blade you wouldnt believe who wins!!:eek:
some weapons was designed to strengthen the body and help the empty hand sets thats true.
later
FT:)