Does anyone know where to get info on the original 5 animal quan? Supposedly each of the 5 only had 6 postures originaly, just curious to see what todays have evolved from! Thanks for any replies.
You can start with Robert Smith’s book: Secrets of Shaolin Temple Boxing-printed in 1964. Out of print now but it is a starting point.
we talking about masta dahma and the 18 ahmed methods and the 5 animals play; bear, tiger, ape crane, deer??
i got that from a national geographic documentary on shaolin.
Shaolinleub
no, the origingal 5 qian are Tiger, Dragon, Snake, Crane, and Leapord. I think the animal play you are speaking of comes from a system called wu chin tse, however I may be wrong but I’m sure the above animals are the first 5 shaolin.
What you seek
Dear friend
the system what you seek is named Wu Fang Sheng Quan and means 5 Animals Immitating Boxing. This kind of Shaolin Knowledge is not something that you can learn or see if you are not a monk; and i mean a real Monk.
Some techniques of this style are common in Wu Xing Quan but its is only a small part of the 5 animals.
Hu (Tiger), Long (Dragon), She (snake), Pao (Leopard) and Ho (Crane) are the basic animals of this style. For history Monk Shi Jue Yuan created arround 1240.
I hope i 've been helpfull.
I’m currently learning a version of WuXingBaFa, which I think is “Five Elements, Eight Ways”.
It has five animals, Eagle, Tiger, Leopard, Crane and Dragon, but it seems strange to me that it’s called “5 elements” instead of “5 animals”. Makes me think of the Taoist thing where there are 5 elements to Buddisms four. But everyone is adament that this is a Shaolin form and doesn’t have a Taoist background.
I’m told that this form (and other forms that are combinations of animals) were developed after the individual animal forms.
Anyone shed more light on this? How’s it related to the five animal form that replaces Eagle with Snake?
Thanks for your time,
Originally posted by bodhitree
Shaolinleub
no, the origingal 5 qian are Tiger, Dragon, Snake, Crane, and Leapord. I think the animal play you are speaking of comes from a system called wu chin tse, however I may be wrong but I’m sure the above animals are the first 5 shaolin.
thats what I thought but i saw that program and it confused me. thanks man.
For johngreenhow
Bodhidharma is the founding patriarch of shaolin temple. Some of his accomplishments were the development of yi jin jing and si sui jing for the practitioners of Chan Buddhism.
From this base, shaolin Wu Gong ( not Wu Shu ) blossomed into a multitude of styles. The early styles were involved in a basic routine (hard style) called Wuxingbafa (five animal 8 methods) Wu Gong ( not Wu Shu ). The Tiger form was for developing muscular strength, Crane developed the qi, Dragon was for the spirit, Snake form developed the jing, and the leopard created tendon agility.
The eight methods included hand techniques, leg techniques, grappling, qigong, meditation, sound, secret techniques).
Wuxingbafa Quan. (Five Elements/Animals, Eight Directions Boxing) this is the most accurate translation for your style.
As for the Eagle instaed Snake there is a story for this.
Master Da Mo while meditating he saw a fight between a snake and an eagle. Some said that the snake wins some said that the eagle wins but in fact both animals stoped fighting. After a while Damo creat some kind of fighting techniques. This little story made some teachers usually from South Shaolin to use Eagle Techniques instead of Snake. Usually in North Shaolin they use Snake or both.
I hope this helps…
Jue Yuan
“For history Monk Shi Jue Yuan created arround 1240.”
Lao Long, I noticed that you say ‘history’ so what is the source of this date?
r.
Lao Long,
Thanks!
For r.(shaolin)
When you seek you can find anything. Extracted from the book “Records of Shaolin Temple” in Shaolin Temple, with the help of a friend.
Lao Long,
Is “Records of Shaolin Temple” a book not available to the general public?
Would be historically significant to read. And I would like to get a hold of it.
As it is, Yijin Jing was first published in 1827.
Before this time there is no mention of Damo having taught anything at Shaolin temple.
That includes MA manuals as well as Buddhist scriptures.
The oldest known book from Shaolin, “Elucidation on Shaolin Stick, Spear an Saber” from 1616 credits their incredible stick fighting ability to the diety Jinnaluo.
Actually that was a mistake.
An older 1517 stele inscription credits Shaolin’s stick fighting ability to Naluoyan.
The inscription as well as the book both tell the same story.
How the Red Turbans came to Shaolin and were chased away by an unknown kitchen worker.
The truth is that the Red Turbans chased away all the monks around 1356.
Surviving epitaphs from 1373 tell how the bandits destroyed the temple and smashed the statues looking for gold.
After the governments Northern offensive, led by Chaghan Temur, in 1359 were they able to return.
The oldest known book on empty hand fighting from Shaolin, “Chuen Jing-Chuen Fa Bei Yao” also makes no mention of animals fighting, Damo, Yijin Jing etc.
Although it goes into extensive details on Shaolin fighting(another thread a few months back)
Most of the above info comes from Meir Shahar and his book
“Ming-Period Evidence of Shaolin Martial Practice”
Most of his references are the original books themselves as well as Tang Hao’s well known research on Shaolin and MA in general.
Venerable Jue Yuan and Bai Yufeng
The the Shaolin wushu I practice
traces its lineage of martial arts back to Venerable Jue Yuan of Shaolin Monastery and Bai Yufeng. We place them in the late Yuan Dynasty and after Abbot Fuyu. There is no hard historical records of either Jue Yuan or Bai Yufeng. The version in the so called “Records of Shaolin Temple” comes from a verbal tradition and is in some details at odds and less detailed than the version of the story in my tradition. There are many things in the “Records of Shaolin Temple” that are clearly historically incorrect. Most of the actual historical information about Shaolin comes to us from the Ming and Qing Dynasties. With only the smallest of bits from the Tang, Song, Jin and Yuan.
All in all I would take “Records of Shaolin Temple” with a grain of salt.
r.
Master Tainan Mantis
As it is, Yijin Jing was first published in 1827. Before this time there is no mention of Damo having taught anything at Shaolin temple. That includes MA manuals as well as Buddhist scriptures.
The practice of combining wushu and qigong continued down through the centuries, and by the time of the Ming (1368-1644) and Qing (1644-1911) dynasties a number of theoretical works were written about it. One of them was Yijinjing a widely - read book of the Ming Dynasty which expounded the theory of incorporating internal work (qigong) into (wushu) exercises of the Shaolin school.
From Martial Arts of China Vol. 1, No. 2 , Page 87
Courtesy of Shaolin Brand
Some said that Zongheng, a Taoist priest of Tiantai Mountain, wrote ‘Yijinjing’ in 1624, but to add mystery to it, he made up a story saying ‘Yijinjing’ was originally written by Damo.
An older 1517 stele inscription credits Shaolin’s stick fighting ability to Naluoyan.
Nan Chao Bodhidharma Bei, stele. There were recorded by emperor Liang Wu Di, everything about Bodhidharma. This stele can be found in Kong Xian Si.
The Abbot Ji An Fa Shi, built the Bodhidharma pagoda at the Yuan Xiang era, during the reign of emperor Xiao Jing Di, [534-550 AD], of the Dong Wei Dynasty (Eastern Wei). It was situated south of the temple’s middle line, and was constructed after Bodhidharma’s death and had a lot of historic evidences about Bodhidharma’s teachings.
This stele can be found in Kong Xian Si.
Ba Long Jing Du, was built at 1064, during the Song dynasty. It was built of limestone and at each side of its octagonal shape was written sutras and histories about Bodhidharma.
This stele can be found in Kong Xian Si.
Most of the above info comes from Meir Shahar and his book
“Ming-Period Evidence of Shaolin Martial Practice”
Dr. Meir Shahar Department of East Asian Studies in Tel Aviv University, Israel is a well-known scientist.
Is “Records of Shaolin Temple” a book not available to the general public?
No, it is property of Shaolin temple and Deng Feng Goverment office of Henan province, China. As far as i know.
The teachings in The Chan Teaching of Bodhidharma
were delivered by Bodhidharma in person. The oldest known manuscripts of these sermons are dated from the seventh century copies among the hundreds of Tang dynasty Buddhist manuscripts found in China’s Pingling Temple and
Tunhuang in present-day Kansu Province.
Jue Yuan
Lao Long have you had a chance to check for the source of the info on Jue Yuan that “Records of Shaolin Temple” used?
r.
Records of Shaolin Temple
Tainan,
The “Shaolinsi zhi” or “Records of Shaolin Temple” in 22 juan, written in 17th century by Ye Feng has been published by Bejing chubanshe:
Title: Shao lin si zhi :
22 juan /
Author(s): Ye, Feng,; 1623-1687. ; Shi, Yizan.
Publication: [Beijing] : Beijing chu ban she,
Year: 1997, ?
Description: [1 v.]
Language: Chinese (Show vernacular)
Series: Si ku wei shou shu ji kan.; Di 9 ji ;; 6;
Would you by any chance have the Chinese title of the “Elucidation on Shaolin Stick, Spear, and Saber” that you mentioned?
thx
bq
“Elucidation on Shaolin Stick… Spear, and Saber”
“The oldest known book from Shaolin, “Elucidation on Shaolin Stick, Spear an Saber” from 1616 credits their incredible stick fighting ability to the diety Jinnaluo.”
I think the oldest document on Shaolin wushu is “Shaolin gunfa chan zong” by Cheng Zongyou. It was apparently written in around 1610.
A compilation of a number of manuals which included spear, and broadsword along with staff methods was published in 1612 under the name,
“Geng Yu Sheng Ji” by Cheng Zongyou as well.
r.
Beiquan do you have any thoughts on Feng Ye’s sources for the Bai Yufeng story?
five animals
You know, I had a really interesting experience with five animal research on my last trip. Since I’ve been studying Xingyi lately, I’ve been more interested in animal styles. But for the longest time, I rejected the Songshan Shaolin five animal form since it looked so simplistic. I suppose that being under a BSL master who aslo taught Hung Gar, well, Hung five animal is pretty intense and the Shaolin version just didn’t live up to that. But I decided that since I didn’t have a lot of training time, Shaolin five animal would be a good one to learn. Well, my Shaolin master was away at the time so I took the advice of many of my other friends at Shaolin and they all looked at me funny. They know that I’m more traditionally oriented, and they asked why I wanted to learn something modern instead of traditional Shaolin! According to them, the five animals were really more of a southern thing, but since then, popular notion has transferred it back to Songshan, so Songshan five animals was created to fill the myth. Now, keep in mind that this is just hearsay, advice of some trusted locals, so I can’t say for sure.
BTW, Lao Long, Dr. Shahar’s “Ming-Period Evidence of Shaolin Martial Practice” is not a book, it’s an article that was published in the Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies. And here’s a little tease for you all. I’m picking Dr. Shahar up from the airport next week.
> According to them, the five animals were really more of a
> southern thing, but since then, popular notion has transferred
> it back to Songshan, so Songshan five animals was created to
> fill the myth.
Yes, only southern Shaolin systems practiced five animal forms. Northern Shaolin systems did not use five animal names. The only style from northern China I know is Xing-Yi that uses many animal’s names. In the past, when people referred to SongShan shaolin styles, it meant northern Shaolin styles in general.
That’s my 2 cents.
Shaolin Wu Xing Quan
Hi Gene
Gene wrote.
Songshan Shaolin five animal form since it looked so simplistic. . .
. . . According to them, the five animals were really more of a southern thing. . .
The Shaolin tradition that I practice includes Shaolin Wu Xing Quan as developed at Song Shan Shaolin by Jue Yuan Fang Chang and Chan master, Qiu Yue Chan Shi (aka. Bai Yufeng). Qiu Yue Chan Shi had a number of Lay Buddhist students and is considered the founding monk of our lay Shaolin lineage. It is an northern lineage which moved from the Loyang area to Beijing then to Shanghai in the early 1900’s.
Wu Xing Quan as practiced by us includes 10 hand sets (single and dual) as well as two weapons sets. These forms are not simplistic and are based on animal imitation styles of the Sung dynasty practiced at Shaolin that predate these monk’s arrival there. These Shaolin sets, like most advanced sets from Shaolin, incorporate wuxing (five elements) and bagua (eight tetragram).
I would point out that
Xingyiquan (the system) is believed to have its origins in Shanxi province from the early 1600s.
It’s early development is credited to Ji Jike (aka. Ji Longfeng), a martial artist who allegedly trained at the Shaolin Monastery in Henan province. Many common postures and terminology, such as ‘wu xing’ (five fist shapes) and’ ten animals shapes’ are common to both our lineage of Shaolin wushu and Xingyi
Gene if you could possibly show the translation of
the stone Tang dynasty stele at Shaolin we did to Dr. Shahar and get his comments, I’ll fax you a copy 
r.
ps. I’m not sure if I mentioned this to you, but the image you were so kind to send me, was missing the bottom two lines of characters. We were finally able to get them from Academica Sinica