[QUOTE=Hendrik;1239135]- 2nd method “switch hands” is 2 or even 3 steps process. You don’t have to commit until the 2nd step. It’s slower but take less risk
----------This never work . Too late, always one step late.[/QUOTE]
That “late” can be a plus. It gives you time to think whether after your block, you want to reteat or to attack. You don’t have to kill your opponent on your 1st counter strike.
His second strike will come in, and it is too late for your next momentum pick up if you back off. Forget about thinking , no time or that . No to mention his second strike might Change direction .
As the white crane and Wck one must
So, if one doesn’t dealing with momentum but technics only, that is chasing hands .
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1239138]That “late” can be a plus. It gives you time to think whether after your block, you want to reteat or to attack. You don’t have to kill your opponent on your 1st counter strike.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;1239137]True, but then this method really has little to due with WCK at this point, as it violates the first and most important WC principle of centerline.[/QUOTE]
The haymaker is just an example. It can be a straight punch to your face. You rotate your body to let that punch to pass infront of your face and hit back at the same time. Most people will use Tan Da. But you can use Tan Da without the Tan.
That then hit back.
The then is one step late .
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1239136]To move out doesn’t mean that you move away.
When your opponent uses “haymaker” to hit your head. You dodge your head under his punch (you are still in your punching range), you then hit back.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1239140]His second strike will come in, and it is too late for your next momentum pick up if you back off. Forget about thinking , no time or that . No to mention his second strike might Change direction .
As the white crane and Wck one must
So, if one doesn’t dealing with momentum but technics only, that is chasing hands .[/QUOTE]
All those 3 methods can be mixed one after another.
If your opponent comes in toward you, you should move in and never back up. When you move in, you have to take care both of your opponent’s arms. When you use Tan Da, since your opponent’s other arm is still free, you have to respond to that arm as well. If you just change your Da hand to anothet Tan, you have just used 2 Tan to deal with both of your opponent’s arms. At that moment, any of your Tan hand can be changed into Da (since both of your arms are inside of your opponent’s front door).
Tan da can means lots of different things .
How to move in is the issue.
Also, your way of using tan da is southern fist type. Not Wck way. That is an issue of two tan deal with two arms.
This type of tan da missing the
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1239145]All those 3 methods can be mixed one after another.
If your opponent comes in toward you, you should move in and never back up. When you move in, you have to take care both of your opponent’s arms. When you use Tan Da, since your opponent’s other arm is still free, you have to respond to that arm as well. If you just change your Da hand to anothet Tan, you have just used 2 Tan to deal with both of your opponent’s arms.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1239146] Also, your way of using tan da is southern fist type. Not Wck way. That is an issue of two tan deal with two arms.[/QUOTE]
What make you think that a “left Tang right Da” followed by a “right Tan left Da” is not WC? Both Tan Da are taking the center. If your opponent throws a right punch, you use left Tan right Da. Your opponent dodges your right Da and left punch at your head, you use right Tan left Da. It puts both of your arms inside of your opponent’s front door. It’s an excellent combo IMO.
Ask yourself , what is your left tan is trying to achieve , what is you right da is trying to achieve that will differentiate Wck or south fist.
If I do a right da he will have trouble to left punch at my head, because my right hand is in his center line and my left tan control his right half of the body. He has to cross his own center line to punch me. While I have a right hand at his center line which is closer to him then he has to cross his own center line and the cross my hand to get into my center line to punch me. Imo
I am within the inner gate, but I don’t fight him square, i use two hands, one control his center line another one control his hand which is the closest to me, a leave alone his left arm which is away from his own center line. or his army which is a way from his capital which i have already capture the capitol, I seal him off and capture his center.
See, Wck always seal off and capture like a crane before issue that snake bite if needed.
So, no two arms Vesus two arm struggle, as you describe, those are southern fist way. Who fast who strong who win.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1239147]What make you think that a “left Tang right Da” followed by a “right Tan left Da” is not WC?
Both Tan Da are taking the center. If your opponent throws a right punch, you use left Tan right Da. Your opponent dodges your right Da and left punch at your head, you use right Tan left Da.
It puts both of your arms inside of your opponent’s front door. It’s an excellent combo IMO.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1239149]Ask yourself , what is your left tan is trying to achieve , what is you right da is trying to achieve that will differentiate Wck or south fist.[/QUOTE]
You can use your left Tan to
your opponent’s right arm.
You can use your right Da to
Please take a look my new add on in my previous post
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1239151]You can use your left Tan to
your opponent’s right arm.
You can use your right Da to
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1239143]The haymaker is just an example. It can be a straight punch to your face. You rotate your body to let that punch to pass infront of your face and hit back at the same time. Most people will use Tan Da. But you can use Tan Da without the Tan.[/QUOTE]
Regardless of the punch thrown, if one’s first instinct is to ‘dodge’ or move away from a punch as you describe above, then in most cases I would say they aren’t following baslic WC centerline principles. While it can work just fine, no centerline = no wing chun imo.
And I try not to get caught up in terms of tan da, biu da, etc as that can lead away from WC principle thinking and gets into chasing hands. IMO of course! 
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1239152]Please take a look my new add on in my previous post[/QUOTE]
What if your opponent’s right punch followed by left punch all come in through your center? Of course you can take his side door. But if you want to take his front door, what will you do?
Wck always angle. Let the momentum decide the angle or door. One move away one center , never standing there to park the center.
If I were you, I don’t think as you on tan da…etc those .
I just strike his center while he is attacked and let the outcome direct my slip in center capture. No predetermine.
The goal is capture his center, don’t care if it is front door or side door.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1239154]What if your opponent’s right punch followed by left punch all come in through your center? Of course you can take his side door. But if you want to take his front door, what will you do?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1239155]I just strike his center while he is attacked and let the outcome direct my slip in center capture. No predetermine.[/QUOTE]
But your opponent already come in through your “front door (space between 2 arms)”. How can you get into his “front door” without open his “front door” first? By using double Tan is an excellent way to open his “front door”. After you have entered your opponent’s front door, you can do almost anything you want to.
Are we talking about the samething?
“To enter your opponent’s front door” = “to get your opponent’s center”?
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1239155]The goal is capture his center, don’t care if it is front door or side door.[/QUOTE]
Definition:
front door - space between both arms.
side door - space outside of both arms.
What do you mean “to capture your opponent’s center through his side door”? Could you give an example?
The central-line is the line from the center of your body to your opponent. If you attack from your opponent’s side door, since his center line will not point to your body, I just do know how can you capture his center from his side door.
Enter opponent front door and capture opponent center are two different things.
One can always shift the front door away. Front door is not fix.
Open his front door doesn’t mean capture his center. In fact if you are weaker and open his front door there is 50 percent chance you lost because he can crush you by strengthen and speed.
It is after one capture the center and jamming the structure one can free to control. Open the front door not necessarily capture the center.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1239157]But your opponent already come in through your “front door (space between 2 arms)”. How can you get into his “front door” without open his “front door” first? By using double Tan is an excellent way to open his “front door”. After you have entered your opponent’s front door, you can do almost anything you want to.
Are we talking about the samething?
“To enter your opponent’s front door” = “to get your opponent’s center”?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;1239153]gets into chasing hands. [/QUOTE]
It’s not his arms that you are interest. You are interest in his “front door”. Since his arms are like double doors, in order to enter into that double doors, you have to
Front door here means inner gate. Side door means outer gate.
One can capture center via inner gate or outer gate.
Via outer gate is Such as right tan left da to his right punch.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1239159]Definition:
front door - space between both arms.
side door - space outside of both arms.
What do you mean “to capture your opponent’s center through his side door”? Could you give an example?
The central-line is the line from the center of your body to your opponent. If you attack from your opponent’s side door, since his center line will not point to your body, I just do know how can you capture his center from his side door.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=chaotic2k;1239129]Ian i dont think you get what kevster is saying. He means you have to change elbow position i.e bong sau into punch (bong to taan), which lowers the elbow and helps connect to the stance in order to generate alot of power EVEN if its the same hand you block with. All this is found in laap sau drill which should be bread and butter. This is why wsl guys keep the elbow lower than other branches. This maintains cinnection to the stance and allows for ballstic power as well as solid structure.[/QUOTE]
Can safely say that having recently spent a day training with David Peterson and John smith their elbows were no lower.
As for turning bong into a strike by dropping the elbow that is common in bong lap but actually unnecessary if you can use the bong to open a line for the rear hand to strike, however both require an extra move than simultaneously intercepting with one hand whilst striking with the other. Of course this is only my opinion, I use all of the methods outlined depending upon the situation.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1239162]It’s not his arms that you are interest. You are interest in his “front door”. Since his arms are like double doors, in order to enter into that double doors, you have to
Hey John, I’m not sure what that has to do with what I was talking about? Honestly, I’m not really interested in the whole door discussion you are having with Crazy Bob :eek: so not sure why you are bringing me into that or why that has anything to do with dodging/side-stepping punches as a first reaction (?)
Anyway, if you would like to continue our discussion, please don’t cherry pick my words out of context, as this never accurately represents the original meaning. 