Omei Bak Mei - Yum Yeung Jik Bo Kuen DVD

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Southern Chinese Kung Fu
21

Yao Sing,

I didn’t say that the anniversary tapes were instructional or claimed to be, I said that someone would get just as much or more out of the other.

The promo vid has no voice. You don’t know what he is pointing out, or even talking about. And I am guessing that you don’t study Bak Mei or know Jik Bo Kuen. He is covering its intricacies in the tape. If you notice the willow leaf palm, yin yang hands, and double Phoenix ascending to heaven, you can clearly see what he is on about. It is not wushu, it is short power. And short power and fighting with it works a certain way.

You have seen Doo Wai stuff that was done a few years ago, while in his mid eighties. Stationary hand forms with very quick hands, and yes, a ridiculous sword form. Aside from that, there is nothing more than rants on the net.

I have no interest in defending him. I just look at the history of all of it. He was regarded by Ark Wong, is regarded by Share Lew, by Ali and other boxers…Bruce regarded his art as effective and included it in his Tao of Jeet Kune Do.

He isn’t on Cheung Lai Chen’s successor chart, but apparently had studied with him Through his father after his father passed.

Yau Kung Mun was opened up by Har Hon Hung, one of Cheung Lai Chens earliest and top students. Har Hon Hung is on Clcs chart, even though CLC was not cool with the break up. Har Hon Hungs top student were his son and Sigung Leung Cheung. Sifu Garry studied with bot Har’s son, Ha Kwok Cheung, and also his teacher for many years, Leung Cheung. He was regarded by both as a Sifu and closed door disciple.

Sifu Garry has also studied many other arts has competed in Mt, judo, and BJj and won many times…worked as a doorman and psych ward officer, etc etc…He knows what he is going on about.

Diego,

You are from Doucet’s? Cool. This story of Doo Wai training in Canada goes back to a TV show in Canada about 13 years ago froma man named Richard Shergold. He claimed White Tiger and Bak Mei as one in the same on this show, or something another, and claimed to be a disciple of Doo Wai…

About the same time, this story came up, either on Doucet’s pakmei.net website or here whe it was kungfuonline, that Doo Wai was actually named Wilkie Woo. That he studied in Canada from you alls Sigungs there, and that he only studied for a few months. Then fled to America because his wife and child were murdered by triad gangsters. The funniest thing about that is that there is actually a man named Wilkie Woo in Canada who is pak mei Sifu.

Doo was here training with these respected West Coast Sifus in the 60s and was on the cover of Inside Kung Fu in either 71 or 72. Point is, the stories about this Vancouver thing, him back then being named Wilkie Woo, and etc, just don’t match up.

Just for truth as I know it sake, he is not kined to the Du of Shanghai who was the gangster millionaire navy holder backing the Chinese army, same surname though. I had heard that one too, but this was another, story.

Gossip is something you like as long as it is about someone you don’t like.

Cheers,

Tao

22

Yao Sing,

Just because I am curious, isn’t your Sifu the one who said that his teacher as an old man did Dim Mak a Yang stylist much younger and paralyzed him? Did your teacher go behind closed doors at the Shaolin temple and perform 18 kicks, which no one is allowed to learn, and then become a successor to Shaolin with a shrine? Was in his lawn one day when the water hose went off and he jumped around kicking eight feet into the air and scaring the neighbors, performed light skill and jumped out of a second floor window when someone dropped a challenge in Boston? Swam to hong kong from mainland, and then from boat to Boston? Threatened Shi Guilin and Shi yanming with his iron finger by pointing at them and hollering at them? And could fall down into pushup position just on his index fingers?

Or are these all just gossip stories?

23

Lol Tao Wilkie Wu is my Sifu hes been teaching in Vancouver for like 40 years..doo enrolled in my sigung Yip Chi Sums school in the late 70s early 80s after meeting Sifu Wilkie when they went to school at UBC. Doo said he got BM from his family and trained at my school for less than 2 years.

24

[QUOTE=TAO YIN;1150556]Yao Sing,
Yau Kung Mun was opened up by Har Hon Hung, one of Cheung Lai Chens earliest and top students. Har Hon Hung is on Clcs chart, even though CLC was not cool with the break up. Har Hon Hungs top student were his son and Sigung Leung Cheung. Sifu Garry studied with bot Har’s son, Ha Kwok Cheung, and also his teacher for many years, Leung Cheung. He was regarded by both as a Sifu and closed door disciple.

Sifu Garry has also studied many other arts has competed in Mt, judo, and BJj and won many times…worked as a doorman and psych ward officer, etc etc…He knows what he is going on about.

Gossip is something you like as long as it is about someone you don’t like.

Cheers,

Tao[/QUOTE]

Well Tao Ying, could you ask Sifu Garry if he’s still gonna send the DVDs to me he said he would?

25

[QUOTE=TAO YIN;1150556]Diego,

You are from Doucet’s? Cool. This story of Doo Wai training in Canada goes back to a TV show in Canada about 13 years ago froma man named…

Cheers,

Tao[/QUOTE]

Diego does not train with Sifu Doucet.

26

Diego,

Did you just read my post? I have been following this ignorance for over 15 years. This place used to be called kungfuonline, and before that it was Mousels or some such. The storie went, either on Doucet Sifu’s site or here, that Doo Wai was really named Wilkie Woo, that he studied for only 2 months in Vancouver, that he got cross with some Triads, and that his wife and son were killed because of it…That was the gossip spread over ten years ago. No one knew who Wilkie Woo was back then, and so just went along with it. Richard Shergold claimed Bak Mei on Canadian TV, and some dude named Simon claimed it in some way or another. This made Bak Mei elders angry there. Especially since Shergold was a video student of one of Lacy’s video students…Pitiful junk on all sides.

Doo Wai has been teaching Bak Fu Pai and Bak Mei since the mid to late 60s in this country. His father was known and respected by CLC, and apparently died in the war. Check on YouTube the old slow mo vid from Douglas Wong, him doing Bak Mei in 1971.

I just said this same junk before, but he was respected by Ark Yuey Wong, Share Lew, Bruce Lee, Ali, Ed Parker…why? I guess just for face…

He made a tape of Bak Mei forms that were apparently of another line that his father learned from the same monk that fought CLC. Convenient, yes. He offered this tape and system for 40,000. Perhaps for gullible for Gwei Los, or simply to cash in on the MA video crazy that was going on in that 80s and 90s.

This other Bak Mei, is softer and Rushier, going all over the place, with much more hands going on than regular Bak Mei. Better? No. Similar? Yes.

All of the above is the junk, the truth stranger than fiction, that I have objectively noticed while quietly studying. I shake my head in disbelief about all of the gossip, the spewing, and the nonsense that goes on from all of this.

From what I have seen, this Bak Fu Pai stuff was pretty good material until the Internet came out. That is the stuff that was being taught in the 70s and 80s before Panther made the Kung Fu world go insane.

In any case, I have no idea why I defend any of this…I guess I just like to point out the objective truth as I have seen it.

To add, none of this has anything much to do with Sifu Garry. He had skills before any of this and still does. He won’t steer anyone in the wrong direction MA wise.

Faruq,

I will ask Sifu Garry about this next time I chat with him.

Cheers again,

Tao

27

[QUOTE=TAO YIN;1150644]
Faruq,

I will ask Sifu Garry about this next time I chat with him.

Cheers again,

Tao[/QUOTE]

Thanks, Tao. I guess part of everyone’s fascination with Doo Wai is the mystery he created with all his crazy stories and stuff, lol. That and the fact that you can’t find any documentation on him or his family in China anywhere. There was a post or article somewhere several years back about an Asian guy alleging to be selling the routines of a whole martial arts system on video for $50K, but without any techniques or breakdowns of any of the forms he demo’d in it. Now after your post, I’m wondering if that was DW, lol.
Though I’d think the friendship of the people you mention would say something about his knowledge; in spite of his gangster mindset and morals lol. I dunno.

His mindset and morals kind of (well really, “exactly”) remind me of this David Ross post: "[B][I]My teacher, like a lot of Chinese teachers, felt that those who mattered always knew the real deal and those who didn’t know the “real deal” never mattered. A sifu in the martial arts community (Mo Lum) knows exactly how a real Baai Si (adoption) ceremony takes place. If you say you were adopted and don’t have the right things, a real person in the Mo Lum is going to laugh his azz off at you and take you for a clown. Of course, most Americans don’t know thing #1 about this sort of stuff

A real Baai Si is a public event. It is usually announced, often in newspapers. Mine was.

A fortune teller is consulted to find the right date, you must submit to your sifu your date and time of birth.

A real Baai Si must have witnesses, at least one a MAJOR figure in the Mo Lum. My #1 Baai Si witness was Sifu Frank Yee (Yee Chi Wai) of the Dang Fong Hung Ga lineage.

My other two witneses were a Choy Lay Fut teacher and a member of one of the associations.

A real Baai Si involves you receiving a reb paper books which has important Kuen Po and which is signed by you, your sifu and the witnesses.

To my knowledge, my sifu did four Baai Si in China before coming here. He did three official Baai Si in the US, all done in the Mineola school myself, Gus Kapros and Michael Parrella opened.

I bring this up because my sifu, like many sifu I know, was also capable of turning to someone and telling them “hey, you got $500? I’ll adopt you. Come to my house on a Thursday night with teh cash and BOOM you’re adopted!”

The senior students had a huge issue with Sifu Chan over this sort of stuff. My sifu always scoffed and laughed. He said that anyone who mattered, ie real people in the Mo Lum, would never take someone claiming to be adopted from one of these “late night cash sessions” seriously.

And if another ignorant American believed someone was an adopted disciple because of this? WHO CARED. They didn’t matter anyway…

It was also common knowledge that my sifu had A, B, C, even D versions of everything he taught. Like I said previously, usually in 5 minutes he figured out whether you had potential or not. If you didn’t, he never bothered to even try and show you the real stuff…

This is why, from time to time, you’ll see some whining SOB claim that Chan Tai San didn’t know anything. He’ll inevitably claim he studied with him and learned crap. Of course, that doesn’t mean Sifu Chan didn’t know anything, it meant he never showed YOU anything of value. There is a difference…[/I][/B]"

All The Best Tao

28

when did bruce meet doo?.

29

[QUOTE=TAO YIN;1150564]Yao Sing,

Just because I am curious, isn’t your Sifu the one who said that his teacher as an old man did Dim Mak a Yang stylist much younger and paralyzed him? Did your teacher go behind closed doors at the Shaolin temple and perform 18 kicks, which no one is allowed to learn, and then become a successor to Shaolin with a shrine? Was in his lawn one day when the water hose went off and he jumped around kicking eight feet into the air and scaring the neighbors, performed light skill and jumped out of a second floor window when someone dropped a challenge in Boston? Swam to hong kong from mainland, and then from boat to Boston? Threatened Shi Guilin and Shi yanming with his iron finger by pointing at them and hollering at them? And could fall down into pushup position just on his index fingers?

Or are these all just gossip stories?[/QUOTE]

Apparently you know more about the gossip than I do so I’m at a loss to answer. I do know he has, and studied, Dim Mak manuals that I believe came from his teacher. This is only second hand from one of the older Sifus that saw it directly.

Whatever happened behind the closed doors of the Shaolin Temple I have no direct knowledge except from some who speaks chinese and was outside and overheard the monks talking as they came out.

I have heard from others who witnessed MC do some amazing stuff not knowing I was his student. Actually he was relating what he saw to the instructor of a Pai Lum school I was visiting. I overheard the discussion.

I’ve seen MC do a few things myself in my time at the Temple. So no, I don’t thinks it’s all a bunch of gossip but I’m sure there’s a whole lot of exxageration going on as the stories make the rounds. Oh, and he was really po’d at Yan Ming which made for some major controversy at the tourney and Shaolin Temple back in '98 and he had a whole lot to say but I never heard a threat. Maybe it was in Chinese.

Where are we going with all this? Just trying to confirm the stories?

30

[QUOTE=Faruq;1150595]Well Tao Ying, could you ask Sifu Garry if he’s still gonna send the DVDs to me he said he would?[/QUOTE]

Are you familiar with the material? Can you give us your impression if/when you get the DVD?

Southern short hand styles are totally foreign to me. That power generation looks cool and all but doesn’t look practical in a live situation (hate to sound like a MMA nutrider).

31

Faruq,

I totally understand what you mean, and I personally think that all of it is ridiculous and convenient at the same time. Brief story, while traveling in Changsha, I met some people with the Du surname. Since Du speaks Cantonese with a Changshanese accent, I talked to these people briefly and asked if they had any relatives that practiced Gong Fu. They didn’t know of any. I talked to some of their relatives as well, and the didn’t know any. Nothing big. I also searched for information on him in Huizhou. Clcs hometown. Nothing. Whampoa military college, lor far mountain, also nothing, and not much at all about CLC, but everyone knows about him… But all of that means nothing. Trying to track someone down in China, especially if they don’t want to be tracked down, is near futile. His name in mandarin is Du Wei, and the Wei he uses is a name that people are not even named hardly at all anymore.

I don’t know his story aside from the common sense I can place of his time in America. I did find it interesting asking about various people in China. A person would need a whole lot of time to really fin out the sure truths about all of these individuals, especially ones who passed.

Yao Sing,

I was just curious. I have heard a lot of stories about a lot of masters. Your Sifu told the dim mak story on a tv show, secret of the warriors power, so I was just curious. Nothing more than wondering what the truth is. Some of those other stories I heard from others. Big M, never told stories though.

I know that question wasn’t directed at me, but Jik Bo Kuen is a training and development form IMO. It is there to train the FCTT for proper body mechanics, like Sam Bo Gin, but in a different manner altogether. Nothing really big I guess in the end of it all, lead hand, rear, lead hand, rear. Or cross. It is a great form for understanding how the body will float and sink, swallow and spit over time. Done slowly and relaxed, it really opens the body up. In depth, it has a lot going on with it, including Iron Body because of the dip gwat gung, the spinal movement, and fascia stuff going on with it. I dont like to train it much anymore because it makes my elbow numb with the big right not hitting anything…Cheers.

Tao

32

Big M likes to stay low key. If you talk to him ask about when we were building the roof on the side of the Temple and the rafter swung loose and almost hit MC. Skill comes out under pressure. Poor Andy though, not quite as fast or agile. :wink:

TF got caught with a Dim Mak finger once when he angered MC according to my KF brother who was there when it happened. I got there late that day.

33

[QUOTE=TAO YIN;1150758]Faruq,

I totally understand what you mean, and I personally think that all of it is ridiculous and convenient at the same time. Brief story, while traveling in Changsha, I met some people with the Du surname. Since Du speaks Cantonese with a Changshanese accent, I talked to these people briefly and asked if they had any relatives that practiced Gong Fu. They didn’t know of any. I talked to some of their relatives as well, and the didn’t know any. Nothing big. I also searched for information on him in Huizhou. Clcs hometown. Nothing. Whampoa military college, lor far mountain, also nothing, and not much at all about CLC, but everyone knows about him… But all of that means nothing. Trying to track someone down in China, especially if they don’t want to be tracked down, is near futile. His name in mandarin is Du Wei, and the Wei he uses is a name that people are not even named hardly at all anymore.

I don’t know his story aside from the common sense I can place of his time in America. I did find it interesting asking about various people in China. A person would need a whole lot of time to really fin out the sure truths about all of these individuals, especially ones who passed.

…Cheers.

Tao[/QUOTE]

Yeah, especially since it wouldn’t be hard to change your name, create a new identity and buy corroborating identity documents before applying for asylum in the U.S. back in the 60’s or whenever he came.

[QUOTE=Yao Sing;1150755]Are you familiar with the material? Can you give us your impression if/when you get the DVD?

Southern short hand styles are totally foreign to me. That power generation looks cool and all but doesn’t look practical in a live situation.[QUOTE]

Yeah, I will if I receive it. But you can tell already how I feel about Garry Hearfield’s knowledge and products already from my posts.

34

[QUOTE=TAO YIN;1150758]Faruq,
…His name in mandarin is Du Wei, and the Wei he uses is a name that people are not even named hardly at all anymore…
Tao[/QUOTE]

Have people already forgotten that this is the same person that, if I recall correctly, claimed to be able to make insects and rodents come back to life after having their heads taken off on youtube, and showed “chi/qi” by rubbing his fingers together and making smoke come off them like that old magic trick? This isn’t stuff I heard about, I have seen the videos before LOL.

As in all things, I suppose its simply a case of buyer beware.

35

[QUOTE=Golden Arms;1150810]Have people already forgotten that this is the same person that, if I recall correctly, claimed to be able to make insects and rodents come back to life after having their heads taken off on youtube, and showed “chi/qi” by rubbing his fingers together and making smoke come off them like that old magic trick? This isn’t stuff I heard about, I have seen the videos before LOL.

As in all things, I suppose its simply a case of buyer beware.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it’s that “let me pull one over on someone, and make a couple grand at the same time” kind of Asian gangster mentality with Doo. But not just Asian, drug cartels rip people off and kill them all the time too if they’re not high connected. Garry can fight and I’m interested in the hand techniques, the hei gung and other stuff is of no interest to me. Plus, I’ve never seen Garry Hearfield make such a claim Arms.

36

[QUOTE=Faruq;1150813]Yeah, it’s that “let me pull one over on someone, and make a couple grand at the same time” kind of Asian gangster mentality with Doo. But not just Asian, drug cartels rip people off and kill them all the time too if they’re not high connected. Garry can fight and I’m interested in the hand techniques, the hei gung and other stuff is of no interest to me. Plus, I’ve never seen Garry Hearfield make such a claim Arms.[/QUOTE]

Having trained some in the past with someone that was well connected in that aspect of the Chinese community, that was not my experience. They are concerned with protocol, respect due, not losing face, and how money flows (and all the good and bad that goes along with that).

The videos I described above come from a dishonest, con-man mentality if I had to label it, and I have no respect for it personally. As for the DVD’s and all that, never seen them, never met the guy, and I will stay out of that aspect of the discussion.

37

Well I still stand by my opinion that covering technical info and descriptions with music is a caveat. He could be describing total nonsense for all we know.

So that’s a -1.

If it’s intended as an entry level offering I then I guess I missed it but I’m really over the old “someone throws a punch so you block like this then punch back like this” material. Been done to death, doesn’t take much skill or knowledge. Most people do that much on their own these days, don’t need to fork over hard earned bucks for it.

That’s another -1.

I mentioned the power generation, looks cool no info on applying it real world without the telegraphing shown in the video. Maybe it’s just a power development exercise, don’t know, music cover the explanation.

-1 again.

Holding someone in high esteem that is a suspected fraud with little to no evidence available proving he’s worth high esteem therefore linking yourself to all his baggage is a big red flag.

I’d give that one a -2.

If he’s as good as the claims he won’t be sweating the negatives but if he wants to sell DVDs he better pay attention to the feedback.

Carry on.

Edit: Did you see the Baji apps demo on the main forum? That got me (and others) interested. This DVD not at all.

38

Yeah, what are you really gonna learn from a demo DVD of an arts concepts and training methods. Just a demo. You’d have to go train with the guy or have him come to you to really learn. I think the people that purchase it probably do so for comparison or out of interest as fans of martial arts.

39

Golden Arms,

You are right about that bit for sure. Bat sheet craziness IMO. I have nothing to say about all of that. I am only interested in the practical applications and health development, no matter the art. You are the cat, and you got my tongue on that one.

Yao Sing,

I totally see your point about the music being left out. He isn’t talking about the block punch basic stuff you are talking about. He is explaining how the Bak Mei body works from the beginning.

He isn’t going fast in the promo, he does show it fast in the DVD though. At first, if a person goes fast, they will totally lose the Bak Mei body. Anyone can go fast, not telegraph, and come up with good combos and that with a little practice. That is totally not the point here though because the power generation and body needs to be there to really make the art come alive.

What you mention as telegraphing, becomes faster and faster and tighter and tighter (all while retaining softness and flexibility) as a student progresses. For the art to be extremely effective, this Bak Mei body has to be in and of itself at a higher level. Top half like a dragon, bottom half like a tiger. Machine gun attacking every which way one can. When attacking, take in the biggest breath you can, and go off a hundred different ways all at once, while slowly letting your breath out and relaxing while paying attention to what you are doing simply through feel rather than thought…and retaining cotton belly and all of the other ingredients, all at the same time.

This is all easy for me to write, and like I said, it is easy to go fast. It is a whole different thing to go fast with Bak Mei body welded to it. It simply has to be developed a certain way.

It’s minutely like this…when you do E-bay, as you call it, what are you really doing? What is your spine doing, your hips, knees, teeth, neck, etc… What is your mind, heart, spirit, doing? What is happening geometrically with regards to physical movement?

As far as the rest of it with Doo Wai and that, I personally am just over this idea of guilty by association. These are two different people living in two different countries.

Sifu Garry isn’t some mindless robot follower. He simply respects the art of it all, and believes that it is worth preserving. At least he will preserve it right.

I don’t know why I get a little frustrated with this guilty by association. I guess it’s my American Indian and English ancestry. I am so mad at the one for losing, but so happy with the other for winning…How guilty.

Cheers,

Tao

40

There’s a saying “It’s not who you know but who your seen with”. Like it or not, who you associate with has a lot more influence on how you’re perceived than most people like. That’s your public personna. I don’t like it either but that’s just the way it is, it’s just a part of being human I guess.

Oh, and I had a bit of trouble trying to figure out a guy with a Yau Kung Mun background teaching Bak Mei and giving props to the GM of Bak Fu Pai (giving the impression that’s his teacher maybe???).

I’m a bit leary of stuf like that, just like the schools that will teach whatever style you want to learn.