Neither is better imho. With a good teacher both northern and southern arts can be very effective. If you like Shuai Jiao you must not discount the northern arts.
I personally have trained mostly in Hei Long (guess which province that one originated in), and two southern styles: Hung Gar and Wing Chun. And I like the fusion of north and south this gives me.
This is actually pretty true. When I mention Hung Gar usually I just get blank looks until I say “the style that Wong Fei Hung did” at which point they go “Ooooohhhh! Wong Fei Hung!” and I’ve given up trying to explain WC. I tried showing people the Siu Lim Tao for a while to describe it but they mostly thought it was a form of Qigong because I didn’t move around at all.
On both counts. There are many hand techniques in the North and many kicking techniques in the south. No offense but if your “mate Andy (Judo grandmaster)” is not just a figment of your imagination (I believe he probably is) he is an ignorant fool and should shut his trap about stuff he has no understanding of.
Personally, my foundation is southern based styles; however, within the past six years I took a left turn and started to practice northern based style. I quickly noticed the whole kicking (ti) notion was simply talk.
Indeed, some advance taolu (set way) possess tengkong bailian (jump space swing continuous/outside crescent), i.e., chaquan, or xuanzi (tornado center/butterfly kick), i.e., fanziyingzhaoquan. However, by the norm they all use the standard tantui (spring leg/snap kick). On the other hand there is chuojiao, which is a truly a kicking art, which possess unique kicks, but they aren’t high per say either.
Therefore, the only major difference between northern and southern maybe the way you play it. Borrowing from music, the theory of:
Legato: Smooth and connected Staccato: Short and detached
Hence, legato can be perceived as fluid-long movements, e.g., chaquan; therefore, staccato can be perceived as solid-short movements, e.g., hongjiaquan. However, Chinese martial art doesn’t play by its own rule; you have northern style like bajiquan, which uses staccato and southern style like cailifoquan which uses legato; crap!
The North/South distinction is largely stereotypical and has little to do with the reality of technique beyond a few generalized (and often violated) principles on each side.
Personally, hate talking about Chinese martial arts to laypersons or even beginners, because it is to intricate to be explained in a few sentences, because there is always a “but,” somewhere in the explanation.
north/south/east/west/kicking/punching/stopping/crushing/drilling/pounding/grinding/stomping/smashing and so on and so on.
You will only be limited by your own actual experience.
the thing about kungfu is that you have to do it to know what it is. And when you do it long enough, you’ll know what it is and where you are capable and where you are limited. Maintain your capability, work on your limitation and you will cojtinue to strive towards kungfu.
btw and fwiw, these distinctions are common and are intended to provide verbiage for total newbs, hence the whole north/south thing. Mostly it’s an idea with no really strong foundations with a few exceptions in regards to principle use in a given style.
One could also make teh north / south equation in regards to china’s communism vs nationalism.
mao tse tung vs sun yat sen and so on.
the divisions are just indicators to a starting point. Once you’re walking it, you’re walking it and there’s just a big empty jug to fill with nourishment.
Nice analogy. As a musician myself its easy to understand.
Hence, legato can be perceived as fluid-long movements, e.g., chaquan; therefore, staccato can be perceived as solid-short movements, e.g., hongjiaquan. However, Chinese martial art doesn’t play by its own rule; you have northern style like bajiquan, which uses staccato and southern style like cailifoquan which uses legato; crap!
Except Choy Lay Fut is a long staccato style. Where as Taiji is a long connected style.
Cailifoquan, has a lovely legato flavor compare to hongjiaquan or zhoujiaquan, which are so staccato in nature. However, what may differ between cailifoquan from beishiquan (northern style boxing), is the use of angles; most northern styles stay within a straight line, excluding baguazhang.
For a simple example, the power generation difference between northern and southern arts is vastly different. Northern art’s body structure in power generation is vastly superior to southern’s.
WOW!!! So Northern is vastly superior?!? Why didn’t anyone tell me this beforehand!!! I think I’ll have to drop my Choy Lay Fut becuase it just can’t stand up to t3h d34d1y powers of t3h Northern Arts!!!
1: It is good to state who you are quoting so that others can go back and check the context of the quote without wading through every single post.
2: The statement that individual made was entirely to do with power generation. Unless you think that power generation is the only aspect of a martial art that determines it’s quality this is not saying anything close to “abandon CLf”.
Yeah, but the statement is false. The power generation in CLF is very closely related to that found in many northern styles, as is Hung Gar’s. Many Shorthand styles utilise a form of energy generation that is similar to the silk reeling found in Taiji, Baji, Bagua etc (as indeed CLF does in a longarm fashion), so really in terms of power generation, if you show a northern example, there’ll be a southern equivalent.
Hung Gar is one of the three styles I have learned much of (the other two are Wing Chun and a northern style, Hei Long Wu Shu - that’s where I picked up the Shuai Jiao and Chin’na I make reference to on occasion - my Sifu says it’s grappling was influenced by Mongol styles. I’m making a trip to Nei Mongu sometime next year and hope to get a chance to witness their wrestling while there). As the one aspect of my own fighting that I am particularly renouned for is power generation and as much of that I learned directly from Hung Gar I agree with you. However Infrazazel could have made his point much better by clearly citing the original source and staying relaxed rather than getting so worked up.
As he is relatively new to the forum (by his post count) I was dropping him a bit of helpful advice, nothing more.
I’ll agree with you partially. However, it is my understanding that most styles, Northern and Southern alike are Ju Lu Bi (sp?) (ie use “sectional power”), however, the styles like Xing Yi, Taiji and BaGua and some Northern styles at the higher level are not sectional. One part moves, all part moves simultaneously.
In Choy Lay Fut, force is generated from the leg, moves up through the hips, waist, shoulder, elbow and wrist. The force moves in sections thru the body.
In Taiji, force is generated by “bouncing” off the ground, like pressing down on a spring and then the force comes back out through a relaxed structure. In form practice it is gravity compressing “the spring” and and in application it is the opponent + gravity compressing “the spring.”
Anyways, that is my understanding. But I like the analogy that martial arts is like a spiral staircase. Depending on where you stand on that staircase you are going to see martial arts slightly differently. Depending on whether you are at a higher or lower level or even if you are nearly at the same level but on a different part of the stairs you might see things completely differently.
But they’re so cute, how can you deny them
Anyway, sometimes they lead to meaningful discussions.
Fu Pow, at the higher levels it’s just a different way of describing the same thing. Also remeber that my CLF is not necessarily always the same as your CLF.