A natural fighter witha couple of years and a stylist with a decade have about the same abilities overall in my experience. I’m some of both. I’m a natural grappler that needs very little practice to knock off the cobwebs and a trained striker that has to practice daily to keep sharp.
Let me clear this up…
The fact of the matter is, like most other threads, there is no “real” answer…I just wanted to see what the community thought.
I think the decade of training would pay off, again both put in a 100%. But the deciding factor, in my mind ,would be the knowledge you could learn in 10 years. As opposed to the little bit of cool stuff you can learn in a year or two. But you must understand, some people are born fighters (and by fighting I mean kickin’ ass) and others are lovers…and then there are neither. The true question is:
Could a born fighter with a year or two of training beat a lover/neither who trains for a decade.
Weirder things have happend.. taking odds, I might take the “natural” all other things being equal… the hard thing is that these **** things are so hypothetical.
Two points of view…Chen Man Ching stated that out of the things that makes a good fighter, talent was the least important. That being said though..drive to learn is equally important, and the kind of drive I am talking about is something that 95% of most people dont have..its the drive that is so strong, its all you think about, the kind of drive where you may have dumped a gorgeous girl to go in and work out, told family members ‘no’ to dinners where your grandma is visiting for the last time before she dies..etc…that person will get it..the average joe…probably wont. Or to put it this way…how many NFL, NBA, etc players do you think now play that are ‘naturals’ vs. ‘non naturals that work hard’? I would guess most but not all are naturals.
Good point GA, but I think part of the naturals thing is the drive…
Too bad it turned into WWG - We Worship Grapplers.
Sigh. Don’t keep up much, do we?
Keeping Up
No I do not “keep up” w/the UFC. I had a buddy who was so into it that I got sick of hearing about it. The last one I had to sit through was more like an hour and a half commercial for Gracie Jujitsu. If some stand up fighters have came into prominence since then, great. It just seemed like most every UFC match ended up being two grown men rolling around on the floor. If current UFC’s are different, yay rah. I don’t find them entertaining. The ones I did sit through were on a TV where I didn’t control the remote, or give a big enough chit about what was on to whine about it. Peace.
OK, hands up- will Bent Monk be savaged by Merryprankster, or quietly ignored?
But on topic, I think spirit is one of the most important things. That and conditioning. As well as skill.
But on topic, I think spirit is one of the most important things. That and conditioning. As well as skill.
Let’s see…spirit, conditioning, skill…what else is there? 
Not savaged. Informed if he’s willing to listen. Although I’m not big on his belligerent attitude, I might have started it
BentMonk, I suggest you give both UFC and Pride another whirl. We’ve come a long way since UFC 4–which is when Rorian sold the franchise, I think.
I don’t think casual dismissal is warranted.
BM, MP has the correct in a compromising position (dam, still can’t get the hang of that bit I watch the one tape a buddy of mine copied for me every couple of weeks and it has some great fights on it. The Pulver-Penn fight is my favorite. I hope to see the UFC rise to become the asian martial arts venue equal to boxing.
Now, if only some cma folks would get off there butts and train for it we would get some representation.
“But on topic, I think spirit is one of the most important things. That and conditioning. As well as skill.”
As I was typing the above sentence I realised how important all three things were, and I let it stand as testament to the sillyness of the original question.
Willing To Listen
MP- Yeah, the “sigh…don’t keep up much” thing got me going. I can be quite a smart a$$ sometimes. From what you guys have said it sounds like UFC’s have changed. I’ll give the ones you reccomended a look. When it started I was hoping that it would be the MA equivalent of boxing also. It’s ironic that I find stand-up matches more fun to watch than grappling. Since I have Cerebral Palsy and can’t kick due to balance issues, all the kicks in my material have been changed to knees and elbows. I have no choice but to train and fight as a grappler. The one good thing about my preference for stand up fighting is, that after nine years of training, my speed and punching power finally doesn’t suck. I figure one or two fast solid punches will hopefully open a door or two for the grab & slam stuff. Thanks for reminding me to keep an open mind. Peace. 
OMG, respect and an open mind. What is this forum coming to? 
Sort Of On Topic
This is kind of related to the topic. What kinds of sparring do you guys do? Down here in Luavull we bang pretty good, but keep respect and control. The more experienced students go just barely below full speed and contact. Protective gear except for a cup is optional. Less experienced students are monitored closely and encouraged to develop speed and power gradually. Nearly all of our students have outstanding control of the techniques they throw. We’ve had our share of split lips, black eyes, bruised ribs, and minor things like that. Still, I’ve been there for almost ten years and have yet to see someone seriously hurt. Knock On Wood IMO protective gear gives some a perceived license to kill. If you go fast and hard, yet still keep a presence of control, I think it leads to better judgement in the techniques you choose to use. Also being hit while wearing gear is very different from getting hit without it. I would much rather be some what accustomed to taking an unpadded hit (albeit pulled), than for my first full contact experience to be when I get punched in the street. We also spar two-on-one. Oops, switching ramble mode off. Peace & Happy Training.
scotty1, I agree, was just funning ya.
point being: it’s all important and the guy/gal who’s got it all together the best is going to do ok in a fight.
Sparring
When I was enrolled at Shaolin-Do, my school was notorious for 50% sparring…Hell, thats all we ever did. Even the two on one/ three on one sparring moved at a snails pace. But, I’ve been informed my new martial art is going to be rough. Slaps to the face, Punches to the stomach, and all the while being slammed down. its been called 80% sparring, and Its a welcome change.
we’ve always used 25/50/75/controlled full to denote different levels of sparring intensity.
of course, you realize that the mma guys are just going to tell us we’re not really going close to full contact.
Yeah, but I think few can keep control in 100% sparring. Someone would get kicked in the nuts or punched in the face hard and it would turn into an all out slobber-knocker.
BTW, Oso, your girlfriend has some cool art. Maybe she could design an album cover for me.
she could indeed. her email is on the website.
I look at my sparring progression happening over several years. Over that time you try and instill a lack of ego in the student so that retaliation and escalation don’t happen. If you get nailed then you get nailed. don’t be vindictive. that’s when I see the most instances of out of control crap.