Mystery of The Snake & Crane; Part Deux

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
21

Jim, Brian,

Great start, however since you both have not seen the other red boat set of Cho family such as the arrow punch and the Chui Da or the Jeet Kuen set or the Chi Sau Long. I think that is another direction we would like to look into… and may be there is no Female or Male … but all is one?

Also, what is hard? what is soft? that got to be clearly define otherwise it is just word without meaning.

And what is the join force inch power of white crane ?

Also, Ng Mui if according to the White Crane people, they rank Ng Miu as some one live in late 1700 era.

Also, there is an evolution of White Crane on the end of 1700 era…

So, there are lots of direction need to look at.

Not to mention, forsue, using the hip is not a major signiture of power generation of White Crane,. there are horizontal and vertical power and …etc which even if we brought it up today it will energize one’s power in WCK over night. IMHO.

So, until that level of understanding is comprehend and know, books reading and posture comparison doesnt really contribute much.

Best Regards
Hendrik

22

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;748818]What independently verifiable evidence exists that Yik Kam existed? Writings alleged to have come from Yik Kam? How can this be verified?[/QUOTE]

Rational thinking is excellent.

HOwever, Rational thinking become a blockage when one doesnt know what is the limit of the nature of rational thinking.

My answer is waiting for you when you could transcent the limit of your rational thinking.

Until then have a sweet rational/resonable/critic thinking mind set dream.

rationalized for a reason why you will wake up tomorrow morning. and does that reason matter if you wake up or what if you dont (which for most of us will happen one day in the next 50 years forsure, where we will never wake up after that last day. so rationalize and plan and calculate which day is your last day and see if your rational mind make any sense? )

23

[QUOTE=Knifefighter;749069]Muscle memory and being relaxed are context specific. Running through forms trains your muscle memory and teaches you to be relaxed while doing the forms only.

Developing muscle memory and relaxation for fighting comes from experience in fighting.
"[/QUOTE]

Yes, external training is doing that.

however,

Internal training is doing the opposite, let go and let it goes back to the nature and let it flow.

24

[QUOTE=Hendrik;749136]Rational thinking is excellent.

HOwever, Rational thinking become a blockage when one doesnt know what is the limit of the nature of rational thinking.

My answer is waiting for you when you could transcent the limit of your rational thinking.

Until then have a sweet rational/resonable/critic thinking mind set dream.

[/QUOTE]

Ahhhh . . . the appeal to other ways of knowing. Maybe in your heart you just know or maybe it came to you in a dream/vision or maybe . . . . When people don’t need evidence to believe something, and accept it on faith, there can be no “reasonable” discussion since obviously for that person reason doesn’t matter (they believe for reasons outside of rational thought).

Hendrik “knows” and this knowing is not based on evidence or rational thinking, and he can’t demonstrate it with evidence or explain it rationally. Only when we transcend to Hendrik’s plane, the plane where logic, rational thought, real evidence, etc. no longer matter can we begin to understand. Apparently Hendrik’s answer is awaiting my senility.

25

[QUOTE=Hendrik;749140]Yes, external training is doing that.

however,

Internal training is doing the opposite, let go and let it goes back to the nature and let it flow.[/QUOTE]

Here’s what you do: go down to a local MMA gym and have a good grappler get you in a headlock. Then let “Nature” take over and “let it flow” and see where it gets you. It will get you to the same place it got you when Rene choked you out.

The only way to learn and develop the ability to be relaxed and move effectively (including flow) when dealing with an opponent with high levels of aggression, attributes, and skill is by doing it. It comes from experience, nothing else. There are no such things as internal training and external training – there is just training. You determine the effectiveness of your training by your (increased) performance ability.

26

The only way to learn and develop the ability to be relaxed and move effectively (including flow) when dealing with an opponent with high levels of aggression, attributes, and skill is by doing it. ----

True.

How and is it only one way?

that is the question.

and How to measure it in term of brainwave and heart rythem is the first step.

It comes from experience, nothing else. ------

Sure,
and how to measure experience?

There are no such things as internal training and external training – there is just training. -------

Sure, there is your reality.

But not according to the chinese which using these type of catagorization for past few hundred years.

You determine the effectiveness of your training by your (increased) performance ability.------

What is your EEG handling?

What is your HRV handling?

Until you got those basic stuffs, how do you even measure effectiveness ? not to mention the more demanding case while in action.

27

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;749150]Ahhhh . . . the appeal to other ways of knowing. Maybe in your heart you just know or maybe it came to you in a dream/vision or maybe . . . . When people don’t need evidence to believe something, and accept it on faith, there can be no “reasonable” discussion since obviously for that person reason doesn’t matter (they believe for reasons outside of rational thought).

Hendrik “knows” and this knowing is not based on evidence or rational thinking, and he can’t demonstrate it with evidence or explain it rationally. Only when we transcend to Hendrik’s plane, the plane where logic, rational thought, real evidence, etc. no longer matter can we begin to understand. Apparently Hendrik’s answer is awaiting my senility.[/QUOTE]

you have too many may be and too many speculation.

Could your rational mind tell you what is your EEG and HRV reading?

In fact, I am the one who brought up EEG and HRV measurement.

Do you know your EEG and HRV?

Until then hahaha who is day dreaming?

And also, could you use your own rational mind set way to prove to us here that you great great great great great great grandfather exist?

Let me tell you from another rational mind set, on viewing a certain person in this forum.

1, one were very proud of oneself WCK.

2, Got defeat by the BJJ or MMA

3, Traumtized (sp?) but trying to deny the defeat because of lost face.

4, start thinking and place blame on others, and thinking one is the victim of that not good WCK training.

5, start act paranoid and trying to play savior of WCK — to police and trying to comform everyone’s ancestors and traditional technology disregard of one have no idea on the subject one talk about.

in the same time down play WCK to show one know it all. In fact how much do one know about TCMA? very little.

So, what is the issue?

Fail to take responsible for one own life. for EGO and Face is so important. if one screw up that is other’s fault.

if fact, rationally, what the heck, defeat is a defeat.

rationally, this person is just dont have the gut to admit his own weakness and take responsibilities for himself. You see, policing and down play others is not going to get this person where he would like to be — past could not be changed and his defeat, unless he let it go, it is always there as soon as he hold on to it. But his “rational mind” is not rational enought to know he is not rational.

Freedom start from letting go. That he dont know.

Thus, his defeat continous to looping in his mind and haunt him. and there is not end to it. This is what the Buddhist called it Wu Cien Dao or Neraka. The hell of no time intervall. For there is no ending in this loop. until one let it go.

You love to fight and learn about fighting, Go ahead learn as much as you can.

I love to have peace. So, now I let it Go.

are you rational or am I rational?

hahaha that you figure it out if you know how to transcent the limit of your rational mind. and BTW, EEG will show if you could do that. and that is the basic of using or handling the INTENTION. very basic.

28

[QUOTE=Hendrik;749175]The only way to learn and develop the ability to be relaxed and move effectively (including flow) when dealing with an opponent with high levels of aggression, attributes, and skill is by doing it. ----

True.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, I know. And you’ll find everyone who can do it had developed that ability by doing it.

How and is it only one way?

that is the question.

You can find the answer by doing it.

and How to measure it in term of brainwave and heart rythem is the first step.

Wrong. Like anything else in life, we get better at it, and more relaxed doing it, by doing it. With skill comes relaxation, and skill comes from experience doing it.

It comes from experience, nothing else. ------

Sure,
and how to measure experience?

How about the amount of time you actually do it? How much time have you spent fighting with WCK? That is your experience level. Want to know the quality of that experience? It’s the level of your opponents. There you go. :slight_smile:

There are no such things as internal training and external training – there is just training. -------

Sure, there is your reality.

But not according to the chinese which using these type of catagorization for past few hundred years.

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but there is only one reality.

Yes, you are quite right that the chinese have used that categorization for hundreds of years. People believed the world was flat too for hundreds of years. They were both wrong. Should I continue to insist the world is flat because my ancestor’s thought that way?

You determine the effectiveness of your training by your (increased) performance ability.------

What is your EEG handling?

What is your HRV handling?

Until you got those basic stuffs, how do you even measure effectiveness ? not to mention the more demanding case while in action.

I punch you and you fall down. Effective. How do we measure performance in any sport or athletic activity? They don’t seem to have a problem doing it – even without EEG and HRV (LOL!). BJJ has a performance-based grading system. It’s easy enough if people do the activity.

If anyone wants to know how to develop athletic skill, what is simpler than looking to what good athletes actually do? WCK is an athletic skill. Train like any successful combative athlete. Want to know how not to develop athletic skill? Don’t train that way. The EEG, HRV stuff is silly.

29

I punch you and you fall down. Effective. —

Sure, buy a bazoka, just use a finger to triggle to blow up even a big rock.

can your punch do what the bazoka did just being triggle by a finger?

Until then, your puch is not good enough and you have no idea about your limit. your punch could never ever ever beat the fire arm.

30

[QUOTE=Hendrik;749177]you have too many may be and too many speculation.

Could your rational mind tell you what is your EEG and HRV reading?
[/QUOTE]

No, but my rational mind tells me someone is in need of medication. :wink:

In fact, I am the one who brought up EEG and HRV measurement.

Do you know your EEG and HRV?

Until then hahaha who is day dreaming?

Maybe I should wear a tin foil helmet too? That way the aliens won’t be able to control my mind.

And also, could you use your own rational mind set way to prove to us here that you great great great great great great grandfather exist?

There is no doubt that everyone has a genuine “great great great great great great grandfather” – but how do we know who specifically that person was? Just because someone created WCK, doesn’t mean it was Ng Mui. Geneology is very demanding in terms of finding proof. In WCK, we just need stories.

Let me tell you from another rational mind set, on viewing a certain person in this forum.

Let me guess . . . is it me? ROFLOL!

1, one were very proud of oneself WCK.

2, Got defeat by the BJJ or MMA

3, Traumtized (sp?) but trying to deny the defeat because of lost face.

4, start thinking and place blame on others, and thinking one is the victim of that not good WCK training.

5, start act paranoid and trying to play savior of WCK — to police and trying to comform everyone’s ancestors and traditional technology disregard of one have no idea on the subject one talk about.

Not quite. Not so proud of myself. Have been beaten lots of time (almost every day – hence why I am not so proud of myself). Don’t blame or credit anyone for my performance but me. This is the process everyone must go through to get better. Have enough experience to recognize BS when I hear it. Don’t want to save anyone, either. But I’ll point out the BS when I hear it.

If your training methods work and produce good results (better WCK fighters), just show us. I can’t argue with results. How far would I get saying “Hey, Ramon Dekkers, your training methods stink!”? LOL! They’ve produced a world-class fighter. What have your “traditional training methods” produced? Take your camcorder down to MMA gym, mix it up with those guys, and tape it. If it produces good results, I’ll be on-board with you. But you can’t show me through EEGs and HRVs that you can deal with a decent fighter.

So, what is the issue?

Fail to take responsible for one own life. for EGO and Face is so important. if one screw up that is other’s fault.

if fact, rationally, what the heck, defeat is a defeat.

rationally, this person is just dont have the gut to admit his own weakness and take responsibilities for himself. You see, policing and down play others is not going to get this person where he would like to be — past could not be changed and his defeat, unless he let it go, it is always there as soon as he hold on to it. But his “rational mind” is not rational enought to know he is not rational.

Freedom start from letting go. That you dont know.

Thank you for the pseudo-psychoanalysis. When you can’t provide evidence and can’t explain or defend something rationally, you attack me personally with your bizarre psychology. I understand – what else can you do? People resort to this sort of thing when they have nothing of any substance to offer.

31

[QUOTE=Hendrik;749187]I punch you and you fall down. Effective. —

Sure, buy a bazoka, just use a finger to triggle to blow up even a big rock.

can your punch do what the bazoka did just being triggle by a finger?

Until then, your puch is not good enough and you have no idea about your limit. your punch could never ever ever beat the fire arm.[/QUOTE]

Never said it could – only that it was effective as a punch. You asked me how to measure effectiveness, and I told you. What you can’t do is measure the effectiveness of a punch with EEGs or HRVs.

32

[QUOTE=Hendrik;749187]I punch you and you fall down. Effective. —

Sure, buy a bazoka, just use a finger to triggle to blow up even a big rock.

can your punch do what the bazoka did just being triggle by a finger?

Until then, your puch is not good enough and you have no idea about your limit. your punch could never ever ever beat the fire arm.[/QUOTE]

LOL @ thinking a punch will equal a bazooka (they don’t still use those, do they?).

What’s even funnier is thinking that measuring EEGs or HRVs will make that happen.

33

[QUOTE=Knifefighter;749196]LOL @ thinking a punch will equal a bazooka (they don’t still use those, do they?).

What’s even funnier is thinking that measuring EEGs or HRVs will make that happen.[/QUOTE]

it is always funny to notice some one doesnt know how to read and comprehend. may be the EEG is so screw up due to got beat too many time on the head? :smiley:

34

[QUOTE=Hendrik;749199]it is always funny to notice some one doesnt know how to read and comprehend. may be the EEG is so screw up due to got beat too many time on the head? :D[/QUOTE]

Hendrik, you wrote:

"can your punch do what the bazoka did just being triggle by a finger?

Until then, your puch is not good enough "

I think we can read and conprehend just fine.

35

Since we’re being snarky, I’ll suggest you look up “appeal to authority”.

If you took your own advice and read before posting in reply, you’d see my Wikipedia crack was made in response to canglong, not you.

I know what “appeal to authority” means. How about you look up “ideas of reference”?

I’m not saying listen to what anyone has to say and take it as gospel.

As if. :stuck_out_tongue: Maybe you need to look up “delusions of grandeur” as well.

36

it is always funny to notice some one doesnt know how to read and comprehend

How about someone who writes quasi-mystical gibberish and tries pass it off as profundity?

37

[QUOTE=anerlich;749215]How about someone who writes quasi-mystical gibberish and tries pass it off as profundity?[/QUOTE]

Fair comment.

and

to be real honest to ourself, who is perfect?

why not focus on the subject and everyone contribute positively from different person’s perspective?

38

[QUOTE=anerlich;749214]If you took your own advice and read before posting in reply, you’d see my Wikipedia crack was made in response to canglong, not you.
[/QUOTE]

My bad, and I apologize. That was clear when I reread it.

As if. :stuck_out_tongue: Maybe you need to look up “delusions of grandeur” as well.

Don’t worry, even if I had delusions, they wouldn’t be of granduer – when you roll/train with guys 20 years your junior (as I know you do too) there is no granduer to it! :slight_smile: