you’ll have to do better than that because i got more on the hung mun than you do.
what else do you have?
not impressed.
i can probably show you just as much on the same lines as you. but i have more that contradicts yours.
anyways, i don’t really trust chinese dates too much sine we all know china had some horrific recording skills.
what you got next?
So now you’ve got an official government history of martial arts in Guangdong province that doesn’t mention GGM or Cai Ze Dong…
And Cai Ze Dong lived 150 yrs before he ever could have taught Jeong Yim…
…looks like you guys are going to have to cook up some other mysterious figure from Chinese history to be the GGM.
what else do you got to prove that?
Ok…let’s see it.
anyways, i don’t really trust chinese dates too much sine we all know china had some horrific recording skills.
what you got next?
Funny how you want to quote “official histories” but only when it serves your evangelical propaganda…you really should have become an evangelical preacher Frank, you missed your calling.
FP
here you go sucka!!!
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Triad
Triad (Simplified Chinese: ; Traditional Chinese: ; Hanyu Pinyin: Snhéhuì; literally “Triad Society”) is a collective term that describes many branches of an underground society and organizations based in Hong Kong and also operating in Mainland China, Macao, and Chinatowns in Europe, North America, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.
There are about 57 triad groups that are active in modern Hong Kong; many of them are no more than small, local street gangs. The larger groups, including the Sun Yee On, Wo Shing Wo and 14K, are syndicates of sophisticated criminals, mirror images of such similar western empires of crime as the mafia.
Their activities include drug trafficking, money laundering, illegal gambling, prostitution, car theft and other forms of racketeering. A major source of triad income today comes from the counterfeiting intellectual property such as computer software, music CDs and movie VCDs/DVDs. They also trade in bootleg tobacco products.
History of triads Precursor to triads
Tian Di Hui Post-imperial developments
Migration to Hong Kong Sustenance from 1980s Activities overseas
Recent developments Triad organizational structure Triad oaths
Tongs Gang fighting Organized crime
Dealing with triad problems in schools How triads are tackled in Hong Kong Portrayal of triad societies in popular culture
Public figures alleged to have or have had triad ties List of Triads, Tongs and Chinese Gangs Triads
Criminally Influenced Tongs Chinese Gangs Miscellaneous information
See also
History of triads
Precursor to triads—Tian Di Hui
The Triads were started as a resistance to the Manchu Emperor of the Qing Dynasty. In the 1760s, a society called the Tian Di Hui (Heaven and Earth Society) was formed in China. Its purpose was to overthrow the Manchu-led Qing Dynasty and restore Han Chinese rule. As the Tiandihui spread through different parts of China, it branched off into many groups and became known by many names, one of which was “Sanhehui” (Chinese: ; Hanyu Pinyin: snhéhuì; Yale Cantonese: saam1 hap6 wui2), literally “Three Harmonies Society”, referring to the unity between Heaven, Earth, and Man.
These societies accordingly made use of the triangle in their imagery. The name “triad” was coined by British authorities in Hong Kong, referring to that use of triangular imagery.
Post-imperial developments
Over several centuries, what is known as triads today developed from a patriotic society to a criminal organization. Following the overthrowing of the Qing Dynasty of China in 1911, the Hung clan () suddenly found themselves lost without purpose. Worse still, they somehow managed to miss out on the opportunity to participate in the actual uprising, and many of them were left angry and depressed. Unable to revert to normal civilian lives after spending years living under outlawry, grave danger and extreme violence, many ex-rebels reunited to form a cult which later came to be known as the Triad. Having lost the usual donations and support from the public after the collapse of the Qing empire, members of the newly formed cult resorted to money extortion from the unwilling public through all possible means.
take this sow choy for your arse biatch!!!
[SIZE=“3”]now what?[/SIZE]
http://website.leidenuniv.nl/~haarbjter/169_014.pdf
thats gotta hurt.
Well this document never mentions Cai Ze Dong. Furthermore, it says that the Hung Mun was founded on the basis of people that never existed but were part of folklore.
It really only talks about 1780’s and onward.
How does this help your point that Cai Ze Dong=Ching Cho Wo Sheun ? I don’t get it.
Ok, so you’re saying that Cai Ze Dong didn’t found the Hung Mun? How does that make your point?
I think all you’ve shown is that its unlikely that Cai Ze Dong even existed and was most likely part of Chinese folklore.
Congratulations!!!
i’ll break it down to you once again my young student.
in the book called “Hung Mun” which heavily chronicles much of the history of the Hung Mun, tells of the Hung Mun being founded long ago by another five ancestors. Tsai Te Chung, Li Sik Hoi, Fong Dai Hung, and the others were the latter 5 ancestors. then were the tigers generals. and so forth. there was also a group of women involved with it also.
but thats enough history for you today fu pow. try and absord some of it.
but i have a question for you…“what about the dates you quouted me about Cai DeZhong?” What about them?
are you admitting you attacked me without actually knowing something about the hung mun secret society?
yet in their records as Tsai Te Chung is the head of the 5 ancestors.
are you going to tell me now that Tsai Te Chung and Cai DeZhong are not the same person?
Have you ever read that book called the Hung Mun?
actually i would say no, you didn’t did you? of course not, cause if you did then you would even know the secret Fan Ching Fu Ming poem, wouldn’t you?
what now? fu Pow.
do you not understand that Cai Dezhong and the other 4 are the second group of "5 " ancestors?
of course you wouldn’t.
here’s another one for ya…fu pow.
here’s a section of a Hung Ga site (not Choy Lee Fut related) talking about the history of the Shaolin Temple.
"After this skirmish, the monks pulled back into the temple to re-think their options. It was decided that they would stay in the temple and booby trap all the entrances. General Chan Man Yiu ordered his men to set fire to the temple. While the general’s men were doing this, Ching Cho ordered the monks to go to the tunnel to escape. They didn’t realize that Chan had filled the far end of the tunnel with gunpowder devices. Many monks were trapped and killed in the tunnel. Ching Cho ordered the remaining men back to the temple. By then, it was almost morning, and the temple had burned to the ground. Upon counting, Ching Cho descended that the survivors would later meet the Wu Lung river. Ching Cho descend the mountain in a rage, seeking out the only person who could have given away the secret of the tunnel escape route. He later found Ma Chut and killed him on the spot. At the river, there were only five men. They were: "
Wu Dak Dei
Choy Dak Jung
Lei Sik Hoi
Fong Dai Hung
Ma Chiu Hing
here’s another NON CLF web source that speaks of the Gree Grass Monk…
The ‘Five Elders of Shaolin’, honoured as the ‘true progenitors’ by martial artists, appeared at the time of Zhi Shan. They were Wu Mei, Zhi Shan himself, Bai Mei, Feng Daode and Miao Xian. All five contri-buted greatly to the development of Southern-style martial arts. For our present purposes, we will leave aside the feuds that developed among the Five Elders, and examine instead the way that the Shaolin Monastery in Fujian was run under Zhi Shan.
The latter, in order to foster Shaolin martial artists of the highest calibre, both appointed his senior disciple Xing Yin (also known as the Qingcao Monk, or the Monk of the Green Grass) as the monastery’s chief instructor in martial arts, in charge of the 36 chambers, and devised the Luohan Hall (or ‘corridor of wooden dummies’) as a final test for students. This was a secret chamber where students underwent a particularly intense form of training. It housed 108 wooden figures that could be manipulated mechanically to attack anyone who entered the chamber. On entering the chamber, a student would be forced to use all his faculties to the full to defend himself against these mechanisms, especially since the figures were not only animated but mobile. Many students found the experience a harrowing ordeal, and those of lesser abilities often emerged with quite serious injuries. The Shaolin Monastery put all of its students through extremely rigid trials, but they were not permitted to leave the monastery until they had passed through the Luohan Hall.
here’s some more for you
Kuanyin Pavilion : Official founding sites mentioned Hei
In recent years, some scholars have under - such as Fujian and Zhejiang Governor Mrs. Rana trial files, Chenbiao the memorial to the throne, and field survey data that is to Kuanyin Pavilion Hei monk in Qianlong 26 B[/B] official founding location.
Zhang River located in the south wing covered the riverside high seven East Kuanyin Pavilion, sit in the south-western, two into one center, covering 500 square metres, house of wood-stone structure still Peak, the construction can not research. Sound offer sacrifice to Goddess of Mercy, Lohan and mention Hi statue.
Question Hi (1721-1779), the clouds, a name Zheng, also known as Tu Hi, Ruming Hung, ranked second, that hung two monks. Local records, to Hei in Qianlong 26 (1761), in which the creation of heaven and earth will teach the “three means to object”, “mean by heart” and “thumb for the day, little finger to the” hand vote, and advocates “to Taoyuan customs justice as an example to Shuipo Liangshan hero as a model,” won the Friends of the endorsement and support.
Hei direct leadership of the Qianlong to 33 years B[/B] gained 35 Lumao uprising and Qianlong (1770) Li Shao Min Zhaoan uprising.
Qianlong 33 years (1768) of more than 300 people will be led by Lu Mao arm-offensive maneuver counties. Porcelain bowls to the overall lead Dingzhuang’ll have Dayou, will be of 33 people killed, the public will have the rest fled. Zhang Lin Sun rates weighed on the search homes, Lumaobini Hill, were issued with iwi Lu describes officials reported the capture.
Qianlong 34 years in the early 35 Winter Solstice (1769 Winter Solstice early 1770), Li Shao Min focal event of the village had Zhaoan, will be of mild, gestation stage a rebellion; Support and advance the Ming Dynasty royal kin Zhuzhenxing mainly red silk sewn Fu letter. Unexpectedly bad things plane, and finally rounded up by government failure.
Both incidents were mentioned Hi secretly instigated arrested will only have to comply with these rules, do not vent its name known. Subsequently, the only side-Chenbiao advised, Chen Biao Fu Yan tobacco, cigarettes Dongdu Taiwan Fu Yan Linshuangwen eventually led to Qianlong 51 years (1786) Taiwan will be massive vista uprising.
i thin you’d like to read this one too.
i think all should read this.
there is some real interesting things about the Hung Mun in there.
http://sunzi1.lib.hku.hk/hkjo/view/26/2602680.pdf
give it a second or two to kick in, then it nothing move your cursor.
Fu Pow,
what can you say now about what i just dropped onto your lap?
watch, i bet it will either be something stupid, or you won’t say anything worth while at all.
To everyone else…i liked Eddie’s interest into what i may know, so i started to share what i’ve learned about the green grass monk.
this had nothing to do with fu pow, yet he found it his business to immediately assume (like he always does) than i know nothing about which i speak.
Yet again. at the top of the thread i mention “eddie” and shared what i knew with him. fu pow tried to shoot it down. So i dropped a mess of stuff on him.
i apologize for my participation in his little charade.
hsk
what happened?
cat got your tongue fu pow?
This accounts for the 5
famous Southern Families Choy, Li, Mok, Hung, and Lau; Fut was carried on by Gi Sin’s top student Ng Ging who later changed his name
to Ching Cho Wor Seung (Green Grass Monk).
wow that came from the article written on the Ng Ga Kuen. so it’s obvious that the green grass monk existed when other systems who have nothing to do with CLF
But i do want to say that what Fu Pow did was pretty weak.
Once again he attacked me and what i know about my branch and its history.
When I dropped some evidence on him in guise of other’s academic research on the Hung Mun Secret Society, he punks out and puts me on his ignore list so he doesn’t have to face being faced!!!
The history of The Hung SIng Kwoon is slowly and surely coming back into the picture, Government sponsored websites from china all speak about Jeong Hung Sing so i hope people now can realize that the history that i have been spreading about the Fut San Hung SIng Kwoon is not of my own accord.
Our history is our history. If you have not tried to research our history, then you don’t have to right to shoot it down without anything to back it up.
Either accept that i did my research, or either do your own, or don’t be negative at all.
The last link i posted has actually Hung Mun documents in it and the dates it was re-oraganized.
I was only trying to share what i have, but Fu Pow made it his personal mission to try and debunct what i was sharing with his own inadequacies, and ignorance.
if many of you were more open minded and interested in researching what i shared with you so far, i’m down for some open conversations.
hsk
Hi Frank,
You seem to have this thing about no one speaks about Jeong Hung Sing.
If you have access to the Chen Family archive then you would have seen pages and pages written about him and what he did. You won’t see them because your mind and your eyes are already closed.
All CLF history are interconnected and interwoven, there are less than 6 degrees of separation between us, this idea of MY history and YOUR history means you are already seeing yourself outside the circle. No wonder you are playing on your own!
Hey brother, take a break, look around and come inside.
EJ:D