[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;992291]To simple echo was was already stated by a few like Frost and M1K3, MMA striking is just that, MMA striking.
It is NOT boxing, or KB or MT, it is unique to MMA.
Boxers and boxing coaches are notorious for their ragging on MMA striking, heck even I STILL do it at times, but the fact is, you try to strike in correct boxing from you will get taken down and beat far more easily, as been shown over and over.
MMA requires a more stable and wider stance with less forward leaning than a typical boxing stance or even a MT/KB stance.
You need a hybrid wrestling/KB stances and you want deliver much power with strike done in a “correct” boxing manner from that stance.
In many ways the “looping and long arm” strikes of CLF or even HK lend themselves better to MMA than do classical boxing.
The fact that the bets strikers in MMA have a solid “traditional” striking background BEFORE they adapted to MMA simple shows that a strong core in a “classical” striking system builds a far better “power platform” than what is typiclaly taught in MMA from the get go.[/QUOTE]
Gosh its nice when someone who has actually trained and faught NHB comes on here and talks sense:D
There are essentially two types of upright in mma boxing with kicks and kickboxing. If a school is not teaching kickboxing the instructor is downgraded just by that fact almost irrespective of pedigree. Old karateka and boxing coaches teach boxing with kicks. MT and some Kung Fu men teach kickboxing. They are a world apart.
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;992304]There are essentially two types of upright in mma boxing with kicks and kickboxing. If a school is not teaching kickboxing the instructor is downgraded just by that fact almost irrespective of pedigree. Old karateka and boxing coaches teach boxing with kicks. MT and some Kung Fu men teach kickboxing. They are a world apart.[/QUOTE]
sorry i am not getting your point here, the stnad up in MMA can be split into two groups that is true, but the slpit is between the stand up that works and the stand up that does not
a school is downgraded if non of its guys compete or do well in competition, if they do well they are respected and people will go and learn from them because fighters are always looking for an edge
[QUOTE=Frost;992300]yes they do, i know the guys that coach the tp guys in the UK, and they are all pro thai coaches, hell some of the fighters go to holland and train with the top teams on a regular basis[/QUOTE]
If they are going to Holland or TL then they are getting trained. If they are using guys in the U.K. not likely. Top coaches in a sport stay in their sport for the most part. Top coaches are not that interested in teaching people who can’t or won’t master their art.
[QUOTE=Frost;992306]sorry i am not getting your point here, the stnad up in MMA can be split into two groups that is true, but the slpit is between the stand up that works and the stand up that does not
a school is downgraded if non of its guys compete or do well in competition, if they do well they are respected and people will go and learn from them because fighters are always looking for an edge[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;992291]To simple echo was was already stated by a few like Frost and M1K3, MMA striking is just that, MMA striking.
It is NOT boxing, or KB or MT, it is unique to MMA.
Boxers and boxing coaches are notorious for their ragging on MMA striking, heck even I STILL do it at times, but the fact is, you try to strike in correct boxing from you will get taken down and beat far more easily, as been shown over and over.
MMA requires a more stable and wider stance with less forward leaning than a typical boxing stance or even a MT/KB stance.
You need a hybrid wrestling/KB stances and you want deliver much power with strike done in a “correct” boxing manner from that stance.
In many ways the “looping and long arm” strikes of CLF or even HK lend themselves better to MMA than do classical boxing.
The fact that the bets strikers in MMA have a solid “traditional” striking background BEFORE they adapted to MMA simple shows that a strong core in a “classical” striking system builds a far better “power platform” than what is typiclaly taught in MMA from the get go.[/QUOTE]
Given allowances for adjustments to mma, the striking is not premium.
Neither of your choices is suitable for MMA because of the rules. Wrestling has a huge impact on the way you stike and striking has a huge impact on the way you wrestle.
The strikers can not use their typical stances because they will get taken down and gnp’ed.
Wrestlers can not use their typical stances or their faces become nothing more than targets for knees and low kicks.
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;992307]If they are going to Holland or TL then they are getting trained. If they are using guys in the U.K. not likely. Top coaches in a sport stay in their sport for the most part. Top coaches are not that interested in teaching people who can’t or won’t master their art.[/QUOTE]
top guys also go where the money is, at the moment in the UK MMA pays more than Thai so the trainers don’t mind training the guys for a cut of the purse
Neither of your choices is suitable for MMA because of the rules. Wrestling has a huge impact on the way you stike and striking has a huge impact on the way you wrestle.
The strikers can not use their typical stances because they will get taken down and gnp’ed.
Wrestlers can not use their typical stances or their faces become nothing more than targets for knees and low kicks.
Both styles had to change because of the rules.[/QUOTE]
As this is a CMA board, we have seen every conceivable stance and many more that aren’t conceivable. Trust me when I say this, a few little mma tweaks do not freak us out. We can get our minds around it. We have also come across every conceivable strike. We recognize needlessly sloppy and off balance at least I do.
[QUOTE=Frost;992313]top guys also go where the money is, at the moment in the UK MMA pays more than Thai so the trainers don’t mind training the guys for a cut of the purse[/QUOTE]
Who are the top MT trainers in the U.K. right now?
[QUOTE=Frost;992313]top guys also go where the money is, at the moment in the UK MMA pays more than Thai so the trainers don’t mind training the guys for a cut of the purse[/QUOTE]
Not only that, but many good MMA guys GO to, seek out, top trainers in particular fields.
But, you need to keep in mind, they go to the best trainers that also have a good grasp of MMA – so they may not seek out the “best” boxing coaches since they may have no grasp of how boxing needs to be modified for MMA.
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;992319]Who are the top MT trainers in the U.K. right now?[/QUOTE]
Why don’t you name some of the top MT schools in the US? Would you consider Saekson Janjira, Fairtex, Sityodong, The Wat as top schools? Don’t they all also train MMA fighters?
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;992319]Who are the top MT trainers in the U.K. right now?[/QUOTE]
not really that up on thai these days but here are some i know
master sken and his guys, always produce world champs. sandy holt former world champ runs some mma classes and trains some fighters
Charles Joseph andTony Myers, who both teach at troygen MMA gym and who have also taught in mikes gym in holland and a few other places and are International referees in thai boxing
Rupert Smillie produces some great thai guys in nottingham and also trains paul daley dan hardy etc for mma
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;992317]As this is a CMA board, we have seen every conceivable stance and many more that aren’t conceivable. Trust me when I say this, a few little mma tweaks do not freak us out. We can get our minds around it. We have also come across every conceivable strike. We recognize needlessly sloppy and off balance at least I do.[/QUOTE]
really, i have seen those same MMA strikes freak out TCMA stylists and knock them out, if you could do better why not offer your services to some of the bigger teams in the US?
[QUOTE=Frost;992328]really, i have seen those same MMA strikes freak out TCMA stylists and knock them out, if you could do better why not offer your services to some of the bigger teams in the US?[/QUOTE]Didn’t you read him, my old Frosty?
Top coaches are not that interested in teaching people who can’t or won’t master their art.
I wouldn’t want to cast these professionals as mercenary, but a job’s a job right? Driving instructors don’t pre-vet their potential students.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;992211]Some people think if it’s not MMA then it’s no good.
[/QUOTE]
No, that’s not it.
Fighting, unless you have a ruleset that restricts the range/skillset, is going to “look” like MMA since MMA permits you to fight in every range of the fight – it’s going to involve stand-up/free-movement, clinch, and ground. That’s what we have to prepare for IF we want to be a well-rounded fighter, if we want to be prepared for whatever comes our way. Sure, we can sometimes get away with a limited skill set, we can win with just boxing or just WCK or just BJJ, but we can’t rely on that always being the case.
And, if you want to make your art, whatever it is, functional in fighting (dealing with all ranges) then you NEED to go work with MMA people since then you will be dealing (sparring) with people who are proficient in all ranges, whoo will be trying to take advantage of your weaknesses, and that will allow you to modify what you are doing to take all that into account. You may, for example, be a superb boxer, but when you go train at a MMA gym you will see how many of your habits open you to things outside of boxing (takedowns, kicks, etc.).
[QUOTE=m1k3;992286]The casting punch is a standard part of Sambo. I also think that one of the reasons you don’t see a whole lot of combinations is a combination of fear of takedowns and the small gloves.
MMA striking is more like bare knuckle boxing. It tends to be long range and more power shots than jabs. If either fighter gets inside it immediatly switches to clinch fighting, either mauy thai with lots of knees or wrestling with takedowns. In bare knuckle boxing throws were allowed so little or no clinch fighting (punches) developed there either.
Jabs can be dangerous because a good wrestler will follow the jab back with a single leg takedown shot, so if you hit you must do some damage to discourage the shot. Jabs came about in boxing after the throws and grappling were removed from the rules.
Edit: Another thing that makes combinations difficult is that wrestlers will shot immediatley after a punch and if you get caught in the takedown attempt while throwing your straight right following the jab you are scr3wed.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know much about MMA or boxing, but there is something I wanted to ask regarding distance fighting and the transition to the clinch or takedown:
Most of the Wing Chun schools tend to emphasize the “short brigde” aspect of the fight, correct? Well, I’ve heard many people saying that the said “short bridge” isn’t such a useful tactic because, when you close the distance, you’ll probably end up in a clinch or getting taken down, or at least finding yourself defending against a takedown attempt. So, how do you think the “short bridge”, as usually practiced in Wing Chun, relates to the dangers presented by grappling?
[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;992329]Read every post that I have written. I am tired of repeating myself.[/QUOTE]
That’s just it, isn’t it?
You are comparing it to something that it is not.
The grappling in MMA is “atrocious” compared to Submission grappling in the Abu Dhabi for example, but you can’t compare it because MMA grappling is NOT submission grappling.