please dont get started about who the lineage holder is. theres a family issue behind it and its no ones business.
I think this conversation ended about 6 years ago:)
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There is only one true master of his system - Gin foon Mark himself.
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Well, isn’t that conveinent :rolleyes:
Is it just me, or doesn’t seem whenever someone proclaims THEMSELF the “only” and “true” you sort of start to think they are full of it?
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Master Mark uses a renewable license system for authorizing students to teach his art.
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Because, as we all already know, even if you practice an art for 35 years, after three years you forget all of it and lose the ability to do it! :eek:
And the fact you get a new fee every three years is a nice perk 
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they must demonstrate that they are still dedicated to the style
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dedicated = check, credit card or cash equivalency 
Lineage?
Whether or not Master Mark is actually the master has nothing to do with lineage. The title is passed down to whomever the former master thinks is worthy. Besides, it’s hard to argue against the fact that Master Mark has the alter. I mean, if he somehow managed to unrightfully take the alter and keep it out of the hands of all the other supposed “masters” of the style, then it’s clear that he deserves it anyway.
All this aside, I’ve met him and I’ve also met a few people who have known him for 20 plus years and they will all tell you that he is not the kind of person who would do something like that, so unless you actually know him personally, please stop making accusations.
dw3041
LOL! LOL!
The only reason!? Please. Not to take anything away from an accomplished Master such as Gin Foon Mark, here is a short history lesson; In 1955 a man moved to NY from China and started to study w/ Late Grandmaster Lam Sang. This man was eventuly Given the title of Yee Fong ( wich my understanding is like keeper of the Alter ). This Man then moved to Ft. Pierce FL where he tought Wilburt Simms the FIRST African American Sifu EVER in Jook lum tong long pai history. This Man that I Speak of also personaly tought my Sifu Ralph Young another non Hakka, non Chinese, African American. So when you say he is the ONLY! reason you’re full of SH!T. Almost forgot the man that I’m speaking of as might have already guessed is Grandmaster Henry Poo Yee. Oh yeah Jook lum tong long pai has a branch in Isreal too I don’t think they’re Chinese.
umm. i know the whole story behind the alter and all. im not gonna get into it. but seriously, this is a dead topic, so just shut it. theres a lot u dont know.
shadow skill PM me if you get the chance.
oh and shadow skill, yee fong = er fong in mandarin, second gate. PM me
Shadow Skill:
Gin Foon Mark was already teaching in NY in 1947, and he was given the master title by his teacher; Lum Wing Fay. The style you are talking about is Jook Lum Gee which is a branch off of the origional style based in Kwong Sai. The style is different in many ways and is more of a ‘hard’ mantis style.
If you are going to laugh at me, at least get the style in question right, do some real research instead of grasping at straws just so you can disagree with me, and then we’ll talk.
…and to htowndragon:
I am not going to just stand by while people try to discredit a respectable person who they don’t even know a thing about. I’ll “shut it” when I feel that Master Mark’s integrity has been adequately defended.
pardon me for being out of the loop here, and not to get too OT, but just a general question someone could answer? if he did retire from teaching a few years back, then who was running his kwoon out in st. paul, mn? only reason i ask is becuz back in oct, i passed by his school and saw 2 people standing outside waiting for what looked like class to start. when i asked them if they were waiting for class and if sifu mark is still teaching, one of them said yes.
now fast foward to jan, i passed by his school again, and it looked closed, and had a “space for rent” sign on it. 
i hope this isn’t too touchy of a subject, but for those who know and do not want to respond openly, i understand.
It’s possible that he took some time off from teaching after the death of his wife, but I’m not sure. I do know that he is still teaching though.
dw:
fair enough.
htowndragon:
I’m interested in hearing what you know about the alter and how you know it.
Just curious.
ill PM you.
hey us0kch… was this this past october of '05?.. i think that might have been me
and my training partner. was one of them chinese and other american? we went there for a week to train, and are planing another trip this oct. its was a truely memorable experiance to meet such a great Master. 
Yeah, it was this past oct of 05, but I don’t recall seeing a chinese student there with an american student, only 2 american students waiting. It was a sunday morning if memory serves me right. If you have sifu mark’s contact info, I would call him 1st before making another trip as I’m pretty certain his school looked closed.
I just happend to know their contact info: 2259 Minnehahha Ave, Maplewood MN, phone: 651-739-0778. I too am not sure if they’re open or closed.
Who is taking over his school? I know he had a couple of advanced students, I wonder who is going to carry his art on?
Here we go again another digging in a sleeping hornets nest. well, since you brought this up, you will be the one getting most of the stings:
GFM (gin foon mark) born in 1927, how can a 79 year old man study for 80 years? GFM didn’t meet his jook lum master (lam wing fay) till he was 29 years old (in 1956) that leaves his knowledge that he sells (he only sells jook lum and nothing else) more like 50 rather than 80 years.
Review your third grade math classes before you try to put anyone up for a ride or come back from the clouds to reality.
Here is another twisted sentence. again gin foon mark didn’t meet lam wing fay till 1956 so he was teaching other arts (I believe hung gar) back then and not jook lum, not till the 60s. aside from that, there is nothing special in anyone teaching at age 20, there are a lot of famous masters teaching since 18, some I met since they were 16.
Well phrased, 'the only true master of HIS system. everyone is the only true master of HIS system, no doubt about that … lol. but, before gin foon mark’s time there were already 10 masters selected by lam wing fay and 4 more along with him, a total of 15. lam sifu also authorized others to spread his art, Henry Poo Yee being the last disciple. are you saying these others weren’t worthy? can you also tell this to them face to face or are you just hiding in a safe place behind a keyboard and type whatever you feel like? just because gin foon mark only met lam sifu in 1956 and studied with him for 10 years doesn’t mean lam didn’t teach and selected others as ‘masters’ before and after.
Sure you do, so do we. doesn’t mean our truth is the same as yours or yours the same as ours but you believe what you were told and that’s just what you were told by ONE man. there isn’t just one “THE” altar, other students of lam sifu have inherited an altar from him with personal blessing of Lam sifu HIMSELF. For example henry poo yee’s altar was personally blessed by lam sifu in his school. how’bout that?
Well, since I also met him personally and can tell you that he IS selling his art for money, it means not ALL will tell you that he wouldn’t do something like that. facts, no accusations:
- he sells his first door ceremony and certifications to teach to whomever PAYS for it. there are plenty of examples of whom only studied under him for merely a few weeks or few months, he didn’t even know them prior to that - and they weren’t even living in the same state just visiting once a while - yet they were given the first door ceremony AND permission to teach. So you can keep that kind of first door ceremony and certification to yourself for NO ONE cares for it. lol
- he sold many publications as well as publicly claimed to have the 5th generation title passed down to him by lam sifu. since everyone - except those in minnesota - know that lam wing fay DID NOT select a generation master this also only shows someone interested in getting more money and fame and NOT showing loyalty to the art.
Lam sifu DID NOT give the next (5th) generation title to ANYONE EVER. fact, no accusation!
And the other ridiculous claims like GFM the first chinese kung fu instructor teaching non-chinese… lol. there were other instructors (especially on the west coast) who have been teaching non-chinese since the 30s - not to mention in other countries than the US.
These are facts that show someone to be interested more in money and fame than loyalty.
Funny, the jook lum art has been changed a lot particularly by gin foon mark who introduced new forms - such as the 5 star - that has never been taught by Lam sifu as well as transformed many of the original forms from one man to two men forms. so you mean he is entitled to change and the only one who create the correct art but no one else? the ‘correct’ forms you’re talking about are correct to GFM and his students - and maybe to you - but it ends there. to others, other forms are correct. some teach the ‘correct’ forms lam sifu passed down to them and for them those are the correct forms.
So you are entitled to your own opinion but they are just that: OPINIONS.
And if you’re talking about dishonoring a master: no one dishonors anyone more than GFM does by constantly insulting other masters - especially within his own pai, his brothers and his teacher - but you guys are so brainwashed into one holistic belief that you’re the only holder of the real truth and the true art, that you’re unable to accept anything else. it’s time to wake up and smell the roses: you’re not alone and your own truth only reaches as far as the door of your school and no further.
Just an observation and a bit of bemusement…but if I was a new person to Kungfu and wanted to study and I readthis thread, I would avoid anyone that had anything to do with any of this.
It is… well, not exhibiting of wu de, mo duk, or whatever that seems to be important but is lost in this type of mudslinging.
The other thing that’s evident is that neither group can seem to let go seeing as this is 6 year old dead thread and the parties concerned directly or by proxy can’t seem to get beyond this mudslinging and name calling.
I would have to surmise that this poor quality of communication would be evident in the instruction as well, you know, the wholer eflection thing and all.
Sorry if that ticks anyone, but so you should be. Because it make sya all look a little less than what could be considered kungfu brothers or even of the kungfu mind.
aww **** i thought this was over.
Why do people insist on being wrong?!!!
EasternLord:
GET YOUR INFORMATION STRAIGHT!!!
I don’t see why you even bothered posting this message when you obviously have to grasp at straws in order to make your argument. I said that GFM has been studying kung fu for almost 80 years because he started when he was 5 or 6. That’s 73-74 years, which is almost 80. I don’t recall saying anywhere that he had been studying “mantis style” for that long. I’m just saying that he had a passion for kung fu.
And I looked back through all of my posts and didn’t find where I said “I know the story behind the alter” yet you posted this as a quote by me. You’ve gotta at least try harder than that.
You obviously are just looking to argue. When I said that GFM was the master of “his” style, I knew that this presupposed that he was the master, but I can get away with this because first off this was already the base of my argument, and secondly because I had no reason to think that it was going to be picked apart by some arogant little **** who was only looking for an argument.
I also never said that he didn’t make money off of his martial arts. He is just as entitled to make money off of what he does for a living as anyone else. What I was saying (and this probably would have been obvious to you had you not been looking for a fight) is that he wasn’t shamming people out of their money, not that he wasn’t charging for teaching and for the status that might come with learning this art.
And don’t preach about the validity of my statements being negated by opinion. First off, they were never stated as opinions but as fact so you’d have been better off sticking with blatant rejection of my statements, secondly, if you really felt that way about opinions then you never would have put so much time into expressing your’s.
How about you live up to your words and instead of accusing me of hiding behind my keyboard you can come down to GFM’s and we can see how well your story stands up against people who have known GFM for longer than you have probably been potty trained.
and David Jamieson;
How about I save you some trouble by making your motives for your post more clear:
HEY EVERYONE! LOOK HOW MATURE David Jamieson IS! David Jamieson IS GOING TO BE THE GROWNUP HERE AND PUT AN END TO THIS ARGUMENT BECAUSE David Jamieson IS SO MATURE! David Jamieson IS BETTER THAN ALL OF YOU BECAUSE David Jamieson IS ENOUGH OF A MAN TO NOT GET INVOLVED!
I got some news for you, you got involved the second you did what the rest of us did by posting your opinion on this subject.