This thread is hilarious.
FTI I’ve confronted bouncers, boxers and brawlers before. my main concern is not to hurt them too much.
This thread is hilarious.
Very true.
This has to be the most ridiculous thread I’ve ever encountered.
This is why I always say “don’t learn about weight lifting from a martial artist.”
Unless that martial artist is a Ford Prefect or a Toby or a Samurai Jack.
speaking of listening…
whos heard the new immolation cd?
its roxoring my boxor as we speak 
I’ve never heard of Immolation. What is it? I’m rocking out to some Vomitron right now. Vomitron r0x0rs my b0x0rs. They did a metal version of all the music in Contra for NES, as well as some metal remakes of other songs, and some kick ass prog instrumentals.
metal band thats been kicking ass in the new york scene for 14 years.
interestin concept with the whole NES music thing.
I’m gonna play devil’s advocate on this dead horse.
This argument isn’t dead in boxing circles.
My boxing coach has trained with Lou Duva and Angelo Dundee, among others. He had a pretty extensive amateur career and didn’t do poorly in the pros, but it’s hard not to get outshined by your brother when he’s sugar ray leonard. Roger lives by this still, and according to him, Ray followed this during his fighting career; but he says weights aren’t all that in boxing. He gives me a hard time anytime he sees me lifting weights.
From the underground:
“Sandy Saddler also said “lifting weights will make you stronger but not a harder puncher in most cases”. I asked him what he meant by that and he said it will make a guy stronger in the clinches and harder to push around but in most instances won’t make him hit harder. He said that “balance and leverage make punching power” I just thought I would pass that along.”
Sandy Sadler was a lightweight champion and a co-trainer of George Foreman (alongside Archie Moore):
http://www.stives-town.info/citizens/boxing/photos/btn_58.htm
Ernie Shavers was known as one of the hardest punchers ever:
http://www.autographedtoyou.com/CelebPics/earnie_shavers1.jpg
Tommy Hitman Hearns was deadly back in the day (he’s the guy with the fro up top):
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005MFJ1.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
None of whom, obviously, spent the amount of time lifting weights as Holyfield, a boxer known more for his ridiculous chin than his power:
http://images.art.com/images/products/large/10104000/10104807.jpg
In boxing, speed beats power (ali - liston) and power beats strength (hearns’ fights and hrm tyson bruno?); so for those guys, having extra strength in the clinch or a little more weight to absorb shots with may not be worth the effort.
I’m not trying to say “weights are bad” but I think I can understand the argument that there are other ways you can spend your time and energy that may be more suited to your fighting style.
Personally I stick with the weights coz strength in the clinch is a big deal in Muay Thai (same for san shou and mma). Sheer weight can make a difference in taichi as well.
Not to steal the thread, but while everyone’s here:
personal trainer stuck me on a weight program to help with weight loss and maybe being a little stronger in the clinch; it has a lot of isolation though and is a 3 day split (chest, back, legs).
The extreme focus is really kinda wearin me out, but helps with the weight loss.
What do the training guys think of a more total body approach?
I believe that most personal trainers will put you on isolation exercises because they’ve been trained to get people dependant on expensive equipment that you’ll only get in a gym. In other words, thier livelihood depends on having people come to a gym and consult them for thier workouts. Also, what works for a middle aged house-wife who wants to get down to a size eight, isn’t at all what’ll gets a fighter in shape for the ring (or the street).
Sounds like you already know this B, but you’d be better off doing explosive full-body workouts with big, compound lifts. Lot’s of squats, bench-press, Pull-ups, Bent-over-dumbbell rows, and Deadlifts… lot’s and lot’s of deadlifts. Of course, I’m biased toward the deadlift, because it works almost the entire body in one smooth lift (which is what you need for MA), but I digress.
I hope the personal trainer isn’t costing you too much.
I believe that most personal trainers will put you on isolation exercises because they’ve been trained to get people dependant on expensive equipment that you’ll only get in a gym.
I disagree. I think most personal trainers just don’t know very much.
Exactly, and they got thier training and licensing from whatever gym they work at, or an organization that answers to a large chain of gyms. What’s the goal of the commercial gym?
It was 29 bux one time fee for the programs (diet and exercise).
The guy got fired a few weeks after, but it wasn’t a big deal coz he stole most of his stuff from a guy who’s still there, who’s an ex-pro bodybuilder.
Like I said, the more specific exercises and the increased number of reps (10-8-6 upper body, 12-10-10 lower) made the workout longer. The longer workout is more consistant with my goal of losing weight; but I’m not sure if it fits in with all the other training I have to do after I’m done hitting the weights.
The idea I’m kicking around now is a total body workout, 2 times a week including:
squat, deadlift, assisted pullup, seated row, closegrip pulldown, decline bench, flat dumbell bench, and dips.
Also gonna hit calf raises, bodyweight squats, and pushups during my other workouts.
In other words, fewer workouts per week, more exercises, but a lil more variety.
Did the boxers discuss which lifts they felt were no good? I would think that a boxer probably wouldn’t want to train the bench press or related movements with weight due to possible residual tension etc. But exercises that would work the rotary aspect of one’s core and hip movements seems like something they would want to implement. I know from personal experience that hitting the bag, iron palm, and proper mechanics help me develop a better punch then bench press or really any other weight exercise like that. Twisting ab exercises seem to help though as well as using footwork and wider stances, for pure power. I haven’t done enough to say whether or not deadlifts or squats would contribute to that element.
I did find that squats, back when I was heavy into them about three years ago, really helped with my side kick. However, that force generated was more of a push against the bag than an actual hit. This is feedback from my friend who holds the bag for me. Overall I think that weight training can benefit one in raw strength development but exercises that are directly linked to the actual movement perfromed are much better.
However, my knowledge is limited to what I have personally done and experience so I cannot say anything about Olympic lifts.
Indeed. Which makes it all the more difficult for those of us with an inkling of the correct to break into the business, as it were.
I don’t want to train middle-aged house wives, unless they are really, really hot.
There is no such thing as “residual tension” unless you’re talking a for a few hours after a set. If you bench press today you’re not going to have any residual tension in a few days.
And you can get that same “residual tension” if you throw too many chain punches in a row, for example.
LOL if you do spm, 3 punches is all that you need.
Exactly, and they got thier training and licensing from whatever gym they work at, or an organization that answers to a large chain of gyms. What’s the goal of the commercial gym?
Yeah but that’s different than knowing better, but having intent to screw with you…
The difference between Manslaughter and Murder!
These points I make are from personal experience. When I am doing bench press exercises for a period of time, my strength will go up as well as pushing power, but my punching power, fludity, and form starts to suffer. When I am not lifting weights my punching power, fludity of movement, and form is higher and I progress much faster in what I am learning. I don’t knock bench press but to me the benefits of it are limited. As an experiment, my bench has always been pitiful and I have usually only done pulling exercises and pushups. ’
About one year ago I was doing some bench for about two months. I was doing dumbbells with only fifty in each hand for five to six reps. These reps were very hard and sometimes I couldn’t even get one. However, since then and even before then I have been training with dynamic tension in the forms I learn at the Kwoon. I have also been doing all sorts of pushups and burpees, etc. I recently tried the dumbbells again and got sixty for several easy sets. I know I could have gone for seventy or even sevety-five but I didn’t bother. Anyway, my point is that without weight training I have developed much more pushing power from doing only dynamic tension and pushups. Most say this is not possible but I believe it is.
I understand many are into size or raw strength and that is an asset but for me these exercises to not benefit my health or fighting ability.
WP,
Sounds like the problem is with you, not the weights/exercises.
The problem is probably not myself as I do the exercises properly, with strict form but it still offers very little carry over to doing a martial art. That is, one with predominantly striking. As the boxing article from top coaches for world class athletes supports this opinion I do not think the problem is me. Where more brute strength is an issue, over technique and proper execution of technique and skills, then I would say that raw strength is important but the goal of kung fu training is not to have to muscle through everything as one can easily meet another that is quite stronger, but another with high martial art skill is not very likely to happen, even if it does, your skill better be trained very, very well!