Credit ding
i also only ding someones credit when they have been a real jerk.
My wife and I used to bend over backwards for our students all the time. And each and evey time they screwed us. The good students are the ones we don’t have to bend over backwards for. The pay and come to train.
My main point is the one already stated, cavet emptor, but in the strict sense of the pure beginner.
For the contract system to work it needs good ethics and understanding from both the teacher and the student. One has to be upfront about what he teaches and one has to know what he really wants.
It is a fact though that you do see the contract system abused very often when one of those two don’t add up. I think 3 month renewable contracts are great, 12 month contracts I can see a problem of teacher abuse.
Credit dings are not really credit dings, they can cause a lot of problems in regards to getting other credit lines from A grade consumer lenders, they can have lingering damage, I don’t see it as something to be proud of.
I have seen these dings on credit reports before, one actually from a well known bujikan dojo who signed on a newbie 18 year old kid to a 12 month contract, he pre-paid for the month found he did not understand what he was getting into, both time wise and monetary, the lad had no martial experiance or guidence, and asked to leave after only 4 lessons.
The teacher sent his contract off to collections and there it remained on his CBR.
I don’t call that good business.
Contracts are a good thing.
They keep the lights on and my training space available.
By the lesson or by the month is going the way of the dodo.
Originally posted by Black Jack
[B]Credit dings are not really credit dings, they can cause a lot of problems in regards to getting other credit lines from A grade consumer lenders, they can have lingering damage, I don’t see it as something to be proud of.
I have seen these dings on credit reports before, one actually from a well known bujikan dojo who signed on a newbie 18 year old kid to a 12 month contract, he pre-paid for the month found he did not understand what he was getting into, both time wise and monetary, the lad had no martial experiance or guidence, and asked to leave after only 4 lessons.
The teacher sent his contract off to collections and there it remained on his CBR.
I don’t call that good business. [/B]
Very true, I don’t think any newbies should go for long term plan. They have to know if the place fits them or not. Any school that either not making it clear or pushing for long term plan to who ever they can catch, it is simply not care of the students and not worthy of joining. If they don’t care about you fit or not, only care about money, then you don’t espect to learn good arts form them no matter they has arts or not.
how about 30 year old men who show up a few times, use a credit card to buy over $350 in equipment then disappear and try to charge back the equipment without returning it?
how about 28 year old women who pay up front for 3 months, take 3 lessons, disappear, disconnect their phones, but strangely show up the next year and want refunds?? school was open, classes were taught, instructors paid, rent paid, electric, you get the point, where were they?
there are a lot of shady people in the world, be a “nice guy” and you can lose your school PERIOD
look, I don’t really enjoy contracts, but as you can see from posts like Ikmfdc’s that it is the nature of the beast. I always tell my guys-“If I win lotto, I’ll build you a temple, no charge, but you can bet the next students will have to stand outside in the rain for three days!”
so far I haven’t hit yet. oh, and btw, we have been known to carry quite a few students who have fallen on hard times, heck, I’ve even put them up in the school-luckily, we have showers, bedroom,kitchen, and cots. -old school.
I would rather not sign a contract. I can see why an instructor would want them, but I don’t think they’re as necessary as some of you are making them out to be. My sifu has been in business for 22 years now and does quite well without contracts. He charges monthly fees regularly, but will also charge per class for people who can’t make it in very often.
-i think a sifu should either totally organize their school as a business or keep it non-profit. the instructors i’ve known who have tried to make money on the side and worry about their other job have had more stress than its worth.
-also i think a 3-4 month contract is reasonable. (1)people will not be so afraid to make such a small commitment, thus more people will try it out and maybe even stay.(2) if the person is the quiter type you will at least see them for about half of the 3 month period.(3) as someone mentioned earlier, it will give students enough time to see some progress.
-also i have no problem with a nominal start up fee. an extra $25 in the initial month is a small price to pay for having the chance to really try a style out.
So why is it OK for a gym to sign people up for 3 months to a year, but not for a MA school?
Our school charges per lesson, but I don’t see why it is so wrong to try and get a commitment out of students. The sifu who is running the school has made a commitment by taking out leases, insurance etc. I do not think it is unreasonable for them to seek a financial commitment out of their students to ensure that the school can continue to run. Sure this is open to abuse by less-than-honest people, but then any business transaction is.
Just like any other sale surrounding a service, the contracts should allow escape clauses for the buyer. If they are not happy with what they are getting, they should be free to take their business elsewhere.
The long and the short of it is that it is not a crime, nor is it immoral to make money out of teaching MA.
Nothing against contracts, but they should be flexible enough to fit different criteria and not just the schools.
I know many a kwoon/Dojo that have been successfull without contracts and maintain a high student retention.
It is my belief that student retention/dedication should come from the student/teacher relationship or satisfaction of studying under a Sifu and not from a signed peace of paper.
But than I always was old-fashioned.
I would rather train in a park with my Sifu than in a high quality Dojo that forces me to a long time contract.
The Instruction level does not increase by a high profile location and the addition of showers/change rooms.
But than I am after good MA Instruction and not creature comfort, etc.
Peace.
What about the gwan dao, pole, spear, broadswords, kicking pads and focus mitts, gloves and guards, etc.? You carry all those down to the park everyday too?
Serpent.
Yes, there are many Students and Sifu that do just that.
Most know what weapon will be trained and so it is not neccessary to lug the lot.
But in most cases it will be the car that carries the goods anyway.
I need to carry my gear(Weapon) to the Kwoon anyway as we only rent a place for classes and have no fixed storage and need to take everything back home.
Same for Weekend practice in the Park.
Normally goes like that, bag for clothing and pads, Shoulder bag to hold Weapons.
But replace the Park with an old empty factory hall in the suburbs vs a convenient air-conditioned downtown kwoon.
Same thing.
Peace.