marathon training

Hi everyone,

does anyone know how i can build up my running endurance other than running?

i’ve entered the 2003 London marathon. I’m used to running and have been doing so for over a year (im 18). I can run long distances ok but i think if i did just running to build up my endurance my knee’s would be worn out by the time i get to do the marathon cus i’ve only got road to run on.

can somebody also suggest a weight training regime for endurance? i’ve only got two 35lb dumbells though.

thanks in advance,
stubbs


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The most I ever ran was 10 miles. I think you’ll need to run one long run a week, 10 miles or more. That’s 16 Kilometers for you, BTW. Then run shorter runs 6-7 miles, 2-3 times a week, in addition. That conforms roughly with what I’ve read about preparing for a marathon. Make sure you have a top pair of sneakers, and familiarize yourself with the running surface. There should be some good info out on the web.

Stubbs, this is an interesting one.

Before giving you advice can I ask what your target it - sub 6 hours, sub 5, sub 4, sub 3, get round without walking ?

Also what is your current level of fitness, how much you run, how far and how fast ? All these things will affect not only how much training you should do but also what type of training.

I do quite a bit of running but have only raced up to half marathon, still I can probably give you a few pointers.

Good luck with getting through the ballot - I was going to enter myself but I don’t think I will have the time to train hard enough to do myself justice - I’m probably going to go for one later in 03.

thanks for the replies.

i want to aim for a sub 4hours time, preferably around 3:30.

i went for my first run for a couple of months last night, it was really hard not just because i hadn’t run for a while but because it was pooring with rain and my clothes were getting really heavy and i was freezing cold. and i loved every minute of it :smiley:

the furthest i’ve run is about 9 miles and in the summer i was doing that 3 times a week in between weight training. it quite a hard run because there a really steep hill which is a great calf killer. i could run that in 8-9 minute mile pace but i never really pushed myself.

im gonna buy some new trainers before the marathon. i heard in the sweatshop they’ve got a footscan so they can see how you run and what trainers would be best. when would the best time be to buy them - i mean how many miles does it usually take to wear them in without wearing them out?

thanks again!
stubbs


ECSTASY REHAB ADVICE

OK if you can do 9 miles in 8 minute miles that isn’t bad at all - a minute a mile is a big difference though. You need to be able to maintain 8 minute miles for 26.2 miles and that is hard but if you are starting out from that base I would say possible.

If you can do 3:30 then that is a respectable time - it’s the sort of time I would be looking to do if you gave me a month to prepare and that is off the back of a recent half and plenty of other training. I would look to run 9 miles in sub 7 minute miles (never actually ran a 9 mile race!) so you are looking at knocking a minute or two a mile off your pace for your current run and then doing some endurance work on top.

I’ve never run a marathon but most people in my club reckon that they aim to be doing 30 miles a week in training for one - but their best times are 2 40 - 3 hours so a bit quicker than your target - so I would say you could maybe get away with 20-25 miles a week for most of your training increasing towards the end then tapering down.

THere are lots of training schedules on sites like runners world (UK version) etc but they tend to be ambitious - in other words if I did the training they say you should I would hope to get a faster time than they reckon if you see what I mean. Personally I would be doing more miles than I think you want to but lets assume you want to run it on 3 sessions a week - here is an example of what you might do:

Sunday - Long run - aim to go about 9/10 minute miling (ie slower than your marathon target pace) and start it at 10 miles. Add a mile every week or two so that eventually you are up to 20/22 miles 2 weeks before the race. So in other words this Sunday you run 10 miles - in one or two weeks that increases to 11 etc etc. Do not go faster than this pace even though you can - the aim is just to build your aerobic threshold not to shag you out for the rest of the week - which when you are up to 20 miles odd will happen if you push it. If the pace becomes too hard as the miles increase then slacken the pace - this should be as comfortable as a run of that distance can be. A couple of weeks before the race you might increase the pace to see what happens !

Monday - gym and or cross train (cycle/ swim anything that doesn’t stress your legs)

Tuesday - Easy run of about half your Sunday run - same pace - this is basically a recovery run - you should not be too tired.

Wed - Gym / cross train
THursday - ****lek run of about 8 miles. Run for about a mile (10 minutes) easy jog - then up the pace to about 6 minute miling for 4 minutes - then another 10 minute slow jog - then another 4 minutes of 6 minute miling - then 1 minute slow jog - then another 6 minute miling 4 minutes - then 10 minutes slow jog etc until you have done about 8 miles. This should leave you absolutely bolloxed. (Not sure if this is technically a ****lek run btw!)

Alternative to this would be to run 10 miles gradually upping your pace - so you go from 2 miles at 10 minute miling - 2 at 9, 2 at 8 2 at 7 and 2 at 6. Sprint finish. Warm down. Again this should leave you bolloxed.

Thurs - Rest

Friday - Gym /cross train

Sat - rest

Hope that isn’t too ambitious but a 3.30 marathon is ambitious and there is no other way to run that time other than putting the miles in - if 20 mile training runs phase you then you should not be considering racing 26.2 (and at your pace you are racing not jogging - there are plenty of regular runners could not do that).
In the above do not be tempted to go faster or further early on - you don’t have to - running slower has benefits in terms of preventing burn out and injury - avoid sprint finishes except in your Thursday run - they will add relatively little benefit in a marathon and take a lot or recovery. Always stretch afterwards - if you find your legs are suffering a cold bath for as long as you can cope with might help too.

Very long cycle rides will help build aerobic fitness but will not condition the legs so whilst they may supplement your training in no way can they replace the running. Weights are used by good runners to guard against injury and increase speed - and to stop muscle wastage from too many long runs - but you are not going to gain endurance from them - or not the sort of endurance you need.

Also when you are running over an hour hydration becomes important - you might want to sort out a circuit so you can stuff a bottle of water/sports drink in your front garden to grab half way.

Shoes - there is a debate about this. Some people claim that traditional running shoes encourage you to have an unnatural running style (heel striking) which then encourages pronation and lots of other things that mean you need more padding/stability in your shoes which causes more problems etc etc THese people say you run naturally on the outside of the forefoot and that racing flats (fast light shoes with little cushioning as worn by elite atletes to race in) are actually better if you run properly. Certainly in X country running I run this way because the shoes allow it and I don’t get injured - whereas on roads I run traditionally on a fat heel and do get injured - but I have yet to try changing so wouldn’t like to offer advice other than to say there are two schools of thought.

I am going to assume you go with the majority on this - if you want to check out the alternative look at something like Gordon Pirie’s book or Michael Yessis amongst others.

Yes if you want traditional advice go to a running shop (has to be a specialist running shop I am afraid) and take your old running shoes with you. They will have a look - maybe use a treadmill - and fit you with what you need - budget up to £70 - alternatively find a couple of pairs you like, say you’ll think about it and then buy them off the web (check out Bourne Sports for one) at about £20 cheaper :slight_smile: Tell them you want a marathon shoe - if you over pronate (if you are relatively flat footed you probably do) I think Adidas Supernova are good - quite light for a shoe with sufficient padding and stability. They reckon that a shoe should last 500 miles plus - for a marathon probably best be sure so bargain on getting 2 pairs to take you up to and over the marathon - don’t buy both together in case they don’t suit you but be aware they change the ranges so if you like them it is worth getting another pair the same before you need them - no point in getting used to different shoes if you don’t have to.

Let us know how you are getting on Stubbs, like I say if you can do 3 30 then you really have achieved something - without knowing you (so dont take it personally) I think you are maybe being ambitious - but then 8 minute miling for 9 miles off no real training is good so you may have a talent for it. Dont worry too much about your legs - Paula Radcliffe does nearly 150 miles a week for a marathon, Ovett used to do 100 for 1500 metres, Coe did 50 miles a week plus a lot of weight training and other stuff, and there are plenty of older athletes still running - I run some X country and stuff and you do see people in their 70s - I am not saying you can’t wear your joints out running but a lot of it is down to how you run - it certainly isn’t automatic. You needn’t worry about it training for one marathon - take glucosamine as a precaution if you want though. In terms of injury just start out slowly and build up - slacken off if you do get injured and most people are OK - tarmac is a lot softer than concrete too !

thanks popsider!!!

all your advice is really appreciated!!

i’ll definately keep you informed on my progress.

i think i’ve got some glucosamine left over from when i did lots of climbing. i did notice a difference so i think i might start taking them again.

again, many thanks.
stubbs


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You might want to venture over here.

Popsiders advice is very good and this tiype of training will definately get you up to the challenge.

Are you running competetively or just for fun, because alot of people do it just for fun (and charity) without going through any hardcore training… it is possible but its much better if its something to train for.

Im just curious

soul

thanks abobo, good site!

souljah, im not running to compete with other runners, its mainly just to push myself to see if i can do it. im trying to take up every oportunity to place myself out of the comfort zone to see if i can physicaly and mentally can take it. i have thought like this through playing sport(mainly rugby), martial arts, rock climbing, and mountineering(i haven’t done anything major yet, but i did do the three peaks challenge in the yorkshire dales).

although im running to challenge myself, if i do get a place on the london marathon im gonna make it even more worth while by running for Cancer Research (UK). This is the first year i’ll be eligable to run it because of the age restrictions (im 18 now) so i dont want to miss the oportunity.

my training’s going well but i’ve got a bit of a problem and was wondering if anyone can help. recently when i’ve been running my shins really hurt but i still continue. i went out for a short run tonight and i noticed i had some lumps on my shins when i got back. what are they and how can i prevent the pain while running?

cheers,
stubbs


FFM STOCKINGS

You’re not going to make it through a marathon with shin splints.
Stretch and build up more gradually, make sure your feet aren’t flopping down when your heal hits the ground. Maybe someone else has better advice.

There are different possible causes of shin pain. One is a stress fracture - unlikely though - does the pain get worse as you run?

I think another is the tendons being pulled away from the bone as the muscle is stretched - this is the most common from what I have been told.

Anyway nearly every runner suffers at some point.

You might try to ease back a bit (rest), use ice after every run, wear compression socks (tubigrips) whilst running and after running (compression). A lot of people find this is a temporary thing as their legs get used to something new. You can also sit on your feet japanese martial art style.

A second alternative would be to make sure your shoes suit your running style. This is like confessing that there is something wrong with the way you run or something about your body which predisposes you to shin splints. There may or may not be things you can do to remedy this, but the right shoes or orthoses are a mechanical way of compensating for it. This works for many.

A third and more controversial way would be change your running style. Stop running with a heavy heel strike, shorten your stride, strike on your forefoot or midfoot as your foot is coming back (pawback) rather than jamming your outstretched leg into the ground every stride and then rolling from heel to toe. This may require you to wear lighter and less cushioned shoes! and so some people will tell you that it is madness seeing as you are already getting injured. The theory is that without a fat heel you can run with a more natural style (as you would barefoot) and you run lighter rather than jarring your leg every stride. I emailed you a reference for this from work but search for Gordon Pirie and read his free book, or there are numerous other sources eg Michael Yessis. I am not necessarily recommending this - it is just something Ive been experimenting with.

cheers for all the info popsider!!!

my email is different now because my email service got closed down, could you email me at stubbs@london.com

my shins don’t hurt the more i run but the pain does ease off the faster i run. i’ve been trying to start slowly with short runs at 8.5minute mile pace. each run has been in pooring rain and strong winds so they’ve been kinda hard. the pain kinda feels tense and cramped, i had a couple of lumps on them straight after the run but they went away after a hot shower.

im gonna invest into some new trainers and get my foot scanned so i’ll see what they say about my running style. i think i’ll buy some floresent(sp?) clothes while im at it, it’s getting darker earlier and the cars keep getting too close. lol

thanks again!!!
stubbs


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I have little to offer on this but…

…a guy I worked with has just come back here and said hello. I asked him how his running was going and he said he’d just been in a race recently. He’s a Fells runner (that’s up and down mountainous terrain, along ridges etc). He came 20th and ran for THIRTEEN HOURS (60ish miles). I was gob-smacked but he said one race was TWENTY-SIX hours running. The nutter keeps encouraging me to increase my abilities, though my inertia is, so far, up to saving me.

Anyway, Good Luck stubbs!

-David