Any suggestions. I really just want it to compare techniques with applications I have from pa kua, or to give me ideas for new applications from pa kua.
Thanks.
Not sure about good books. I really like Cartmell’s Effortless Combat Throws, but that’s not SC specific, and is really more theory. It’s a great book if you already know what you’re doing.
I can recommend some good video’s though. go to www.combatshuaichiao.com and get any of the videos there. Quality stuff.
If you’re just looking for raw technique, and don’t care about origin, there’s some real good Judo books out there.
try and find a good shuai jiao teacher rather than a good book
books are ok for revising what you know already and going over things u may have missed and finer points
but if you want your ba gua/shuai jiao apps to work u cant just think of them u have to have actual experience and feel proficient with both
try western wrestling books if u do need them they are very concise direct and effective
hmm ba gua wrestling ??
i think lancashire turns would fit well with ba gua
hmm
i have ideas
golden arhat is correct. If you can’t find good Shuai Chiao (trust me, I know how hard it can be) I’d recommend looking for a Judo Dojo. The two arts are very similar, and it’s not hard to match up SC training with Judo throws. It actually works out quite well training like that.
Thanks, y’all for the responses so far. I guess I should have been more clear. I already have what I feel like is a pretty good arsenal of pa kua applications, but after watching some shuai jiao techniques, I was pretty amazed that a good majority of them were techniques I already had found in pa kua. I really just want a book or two (from other throwing arts as well) to see what other moves are similar to pa kua movements.
So, not really looking for instruction, just looking for similarities. I will say though, that after seeing the shuai jiao, I wouldn’t mind trying it. If for no other reason than to learn how to safely use my own applications…so much of it gets dumped off because I know I couldn’t safely do it with a partner. Not trying to make a “too deadly argument,” but more of a “lack of understanding” argument!
Thanks again, and if you have ANY other references in mind, throw 'em my way.
Ben
If that’s all you need, Bro, you should be able to find what you want on YouTube.
Read waterdragons first post! Tim’s book is bar none the best on the subject.
Jake 
In Cartmell’s book, are there depictions of the throws?
As for youtube. It’s kinda funny. I can’t find much in the way of just basic clips of techniques. Lots of free wrestling, but not a lot of technique clips.
Are you only interest in the techniques (different kind of throwing) or more than that?
SC master David C. K. Lin will have his 1st combat SC book coming out before the end of this year.
John S. Wang will also have his 1st combat SC book coming out before the end of this year. His book will include techniques (throwing skill) along with
- Entering strategy
- Finish strategy
- Defense
- Counter
- Combo
- Cross stance vs. mirror stand
- Six doors concept
- Butterfly hands
- 2 men drills
- Equipment training
- Sole form drills.
Videos/dvd’s are much better than books because you can actually see the dynamics of the throws, the unbalancing and such.
Books are great as a reference for “minor” details that tend to become major details -
Foot placement, hip placement, center-of-gravity, etc…
In terms of throwing with a jacket, judo is the way to go if for no other reason than the simple fact they you can find a judo dojo anywhere.
SC can give you the complete package and there is where it is “better” than Judo.
IF you can find a good teacher.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;761543]
SC can give you the complete package and there is where it is “better” than Judo.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve been doing Judo for about 2 years now, Did SC for about 4. This statement is not true.
[QUOTE=Water Dragon;761545]I’ve been doing Judo for about 2 years now, Did SC for about 4. This statement is not true.[/QUOTE]
I am a shodan in Judo, woudl you prefer “more complete” ?
I am refering to the “complete” shuai Chiao.
I hold my blue in SC, so I probably hold more rank in that art. I don’t think either art is ‘more complete’. You get some striking training in SC, but you get groundwork in Judo. SC has the forms, Judo has Uchikomi. Both arts have similar, yet different, equipment training. I simply disagree with your statement, it’s not what I’ve found.
[QUOTE=Water Dragon;761548]I hold my blue in SC, so I probably hold more rank in that art. I don’t think either art is ‘more complete’. You get some striking training in SC, but you get groundwork in Judo. SC has the forms, Judo has Uchikomi. Both arts have similar, yet different, equipment training. I simply disagree with your statement, it’s not what I’ve found.[/QUOTE]
SC has IP , IV has Weapons and such…I don’t see how Judo is more complete.
SC striking is also more effective than Judo’s has ever really been since after WW2.
I gotta go to work, Bro. I’ll write back tonight.
[QUOTE=ninthdrunk;761415]In Cartmell’s book, are there depictions of the throws?
As for youtube. It’s kinda funny. I can’t find much in the way of just basic clips of techniques. Lots of free wrestling, but not a lot of technique clips.[/QUOTE]
Here ya go
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ashwix
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;761553]SC has IP , IV has Weapons and such…I don’t see how Judo is more complete.
SC striking is also more effective than Judo’s has ever really been since after WW2.[/QUOTE]
OK. I have a little time before Judo so I can respond to this. My stance is not that one is more complete than the other. My stance is that you can’t call one more incomplete than the other.
First, I wouldn’t go to Shuai Chiao to learn striking. You can get a lot of combinations, and a lot of good sparring in, but you’re not going to become a striker in a Shuai Chiao class. If you do, it’s gonna take a long, long time.
Same thing applies to groundwork in Judo. You’ll learn it, but not to the sophistication of a BJJ guy, it’s also gonna take a lot longer.
I went from straight Shuai Chiao for 4 years, to training MMA and Shuai Chiao at the same time for two. I also did 3 years of BJJ before I came to Judo. That’s what I’m basing my experience on. I know what I got from each art, and how they influenced each other.
Back to the discussion.
SC and Judo are both fundamentally throwing arts. That’s what they specialize in.
I wouldn’t go to SC to learn weapon (especially knife or gun) defense either. My old SC coach also did Kun Tao. Wanna talk scary stuff? To this day I might throw someone if they come at me with a knife, but I’ll use the Kun Tao way of defending it. I like my odds better.
Anyway, you go to Judo or SC to learn to throwing. That’s what you’re gonna get good at if you train right. If you want to learn to strike, you go learn that. If you want to learn groundfighting, you go learn that. Then you bring it back with you.
Mebbe it was different even 100 years ago, but now we have ready access to experts in every form of unarmed martial arts. Why not go to the best if you have the opportunity? To me, anything else is selling yourself short.
[QUOTE=Ben Gash;761555]Here ya go
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ashwix[/QUOTE]
Man, I’m gonna try that tonight! We have this BJJ guy with a wicked ouchi Gari He fights crouched, since he’s BJJ. I bet if I get that grip I can hit a Sasae (Forward March), O Soto (Diagonal Cut) or mebbe even an Uchi mata (inner thigh lifting). I’ll let you guys know how it works.
So that technique didn’t work so well.
Don’t blame the technique, techniques require lots of repetition to be useful.