[QUOTE=k gledhill;1112853]Often we see moves being invented to accomodate misunderstood hand actions. Like trying to make the dummy 1:1 application, with overturned stances, due to the idea that the dummy is man we move around.
Set pieces for “if a guy kicks this way…we block etc…”.
Or if guy punches like this just stand and block like statue…
A lot of set pieces require the attacker to not follow up with takedowns, shoots. This leaves the set piece merchant vulnerable to feints, set ups, instead of ‘fighting’, with mobilty, distance control, intercepting…[/QUOTE]
You mixed three entirely different things into your comment about the dummy. No 1:1 application or overturned stances, just structure and distance training but some parts in the form ‘are’ meant to “move around”, some parts aren’t.
I like how you put the most vague expression in almost every one of your posts. “Fighting, with mobility, distance control, intercepting…” Why don’t you just respond to everything with only that expression?.. PB seminar notes again?
[QUOTE=WC1277;1112994]You mixed three entirely different things into your comment about the dummy. No 1:1 application or overturned stances, just structure and distance training but some parts in the form ‘are’ meant to “move around”, some parts aren’t.
I like how you put the most vague expression in almost every one of your posts. “Fighting, with mobility, distance control, intercepting…” Why don’t you just respond to everything with only that expression?.. PB seminar notes again?[/QUOTE]
Not what I wrote…
We train different methods, GH understands , you dont, I could care less, your rather pompous anyway.
“Someone who is looking at Ving Tsun and has not spent enough time with a teacher, probably will not know enough footwork. He will not understand the mobility involved in Ving Tsun, the angles of attack, the kicks in all situations. He will therefore want to add kicks for all situations.He will therefore want to add something else to the style that he thinks is better for the sake of not knowing.”
WSL
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1113019]Not what I wrote…
We train different methods, GH understands , you dont, I could care less, your rather pompous anyway.
“Someone who is looking at Ving Tsun and has not spent enough time with a teacher, probably will not know enough footwork. He will not understand the mobility involved in Ving Tsun, the angles of attack, the kicks in all situations. He will therefore want to add kicks for all situations.He will therefore want to add something else to the style that he thinks is better for the sake of not knowing.”
WSL[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1113024]I didnt understand either until I met the idea in action, you might try it one day, you might like it.[/QUOTE]
I have tried it…our systems are more similar than you think, however, IMO one of them is complete and the other isn’t of no fault to WSL, whom I respect…It’s his “grand-students” whom are really just estranged step-children that I have a problem with…
[QUOTE=WC1277;1113031]I have tried it…our systems are more similar than you think, however, IMO one of them is complete and the other isn’t of no fault to WSL, whom I respect…It’s his “grand-students” whom are really just estranged step-children that I have a problem with…[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1112794]Caution: Arms against legs involve good timing. A good kick can break arms.
There are other alternatives.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
Yes, Joy. I agree. Though I know there are hands vs feet that can work, it still makes me nervous every time. Would prefer not to end up in that situation if possible.
I worked out with two guys who visited from mainland China, I think it was in Beijing, I don’t know? Whoever has a school there from the WSL family. They were good, don’t get me wrong, but missing some of the subtitles so to speak. Too rigid, not in a good structure kind of way. Plus, the way you guys almost force your elbow into your center is easy to take advantage of IMO, at least against another WC guy. The switching too was almost always regular or break timing, which once again, against another WC guy who knows all the timings, easy to read…
[QUOTE=lance;1112788]Jon_Ray_Brooks , youknowwho is right kwan sau is a combination of tan sao and bong sao combined together . It comes from the bil jee form , you can use kwan sao to block a right or left high kick comming to the head area . While you counter with a low kick to the attackers’ supporting leg . It ’ s a very useful block to me because it protects the body from an attack like a right round house comming to your head area , This type of block can be used on both sides of the body . You can use the kwan sao to block an attack like a right straight punch aiming to the head area and a low attack aimed with the low left punch going to the low area of the body like an uppercut or an left reverse punch . Once you use kwan sao to block block both punches you use trapping hands to tie up your attackers’ hands . so that he can ’ t retaliate against you .
And it all depends on your training in WC if the Sifu feels that you ’ re ready to learn chi sao then why not , you ’ ll benefit from it . Chi sao builds up the power in your legs and arms as you practice the exercises . We ’ re talking about internal power now . Also a way to allow both your arms and hands to work independently against the opponent ’ s attacking hands . You can use your own legs to jam the opponents’ legs . Because , you won ’ t be doing chi sao forever ,when you have the chance you ’ ll interrupt that roll and move into your opponent .[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on the Kwan sao being effective against an uppergate attack. Be it a kick or punch. Duncan Leung drilled us with the kwan against high kicks so much thats it’s second nature to me now. REGARDLESS of the kicker. Though I have no video I have stopped kicks from MT and Kyokushin fighters. But as Joy says if your timing is off so are your arms.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1113045]I agree with you on the Kwan sao being effective against an uppergate attack. Be it a kick or punch. Duncan Leung drilled us with the kwan against high kicks so much thats it’s second nature to me now. REGARDLESS of the kicker. Though I have no video I have stopped kicks from MT and Kyokushin fighters. But as Joy says if your timing is off so are your arms.[/QUOTE]
Phil , so what would you suggest then ? The only thing I can think of is get out of the way and avoid the kick , then move in and do whatever you can to close the gap on your opponent . Because if I don ’ t get out of the way , I get slammed already . Not good for WC people .
Phil , you learn Traditional Wing Chun probably from from GM Cheung or his assistant sifu . I have deep respect for GM Cheung .
What would you suggest ?
I was told the kwan is about the movment meaning when turning it is kwan but if it is into the person it is more of bong da. When used for the kick the idea is that the guy is so fast you can’t get in and hit or even use garn. Hence the kick to slow them down in the form but its using both hands to block so it is way down the list of preferred options
and pompous 