I’m just exploring the possible uses of these two WC techniques. What do others use these techniques for?
We were doing drills using Gan Sau to defend against mid level round kicks and I didn’t seem to see a purpose for that Tan Sau to be there. So…
Why is the Tan Sau in there? Why not just a Gan or Die Bong with a Wu Sau?
Although I don’t really use it that way–I think the idea is to divide the force between the two positions, normally qwan sao, Tan and Dai Bong, which can also convert and snag the kicking leg.. Also, as I have seen some do it, you can work turning using the kwan and side/round kick as a counter.. If it works for you then great, gotta work it and then try it in sparring..
Kwan sao in general provides good high and low coverage..
HTH
Would you use a gwun sao or gaan sao to block a louisville slugger? Because that’s what you’re doing when you use it to block a round kick (at least one done with a decent amount of power).
Personally, I would try to take center or simply not be there when a strong round kick comes. If it’s a pretty little snap kick than that’s a different story.
[QUOTE=Vankuen;786458]Would you use a gwun sao or gaan sao to block a louisville slugger? Because that’s what you’re doing when you use it to block a round kick (at least one done with a decent amount of power).
Personally, I would try to take center or simply not be there when a strong round kick comes. If it’s a pretty little snap kick than that’s a different story.[/QUOTE]
I tend to agree, which is why I don’t use that.. I have never really worked that move so I would be interested to see if it dissolves any of the power.. I think that move might work well in point fighting, not sure again about FC..
Against kicks I normally want to close the distance/cut off the power, while moving offline and attacking..
Lugoman
FWIW- you can get hurt bya good kick if you are blocking with insufficiently understood or practiced hand “techniques”.. I am not sure whether you know what you are doing.Not intended as a aput down. Cant tell from reading your post.Gan Sao and quan saw are not techniques-they are motions that
presume-good timing,stancing ,footwork, positioning and other fundamentals that are sometimes ridiculed by frequent mma type posters.I hope that you have access to good wing chun teaching?
joy chaudhuri
Sigh, never mind and forget I asked.
I don’t think anyone meant to insult you…if it seems that way I apologize for that on behalf of everyone.
It’s just that it’s uncommon for those particular set of movements to be used against any hard kicks…so we question the application of such.
I was watching that show human weapon about savate the other day…and they talked about a fight wherein the french savate champion fought a japanese fighter, and both his arms were broken from the kicks of the japanese fighter. Although the frenchman won his fight using his legs, the moral of this story is using the forearms to “block” kicks is a structural no-no.
Though I do understand the use of them when you have no other choice (if you reacted to the kick late or the timing was off, etc.etc.)
We were doing drills using Gan Sau to defend against mid level round kicks and I didn’t seem to see a purpose for that Tan Sau to be there.
IMO the double tan or its equivalent (elbows, take it on the gloves) is th best use of the arms here. Use the shin/knee to protect the lower gates. And take it near the elbow, not the wrist, if you have to at all.
Your MT defense would have the knee and elbow touch with the gloves upto protect against a midlevel kick, so it’s not so different.
Garn directly stopping a shin kick is not a good idea for reasons mentioned.
Evasion is better, but copping a power shot in the head or ribs is worse.
And sometimes you can just hit the guy… 
No not everyone but often enough and more so if you train to do it right.. 
[QUOTE=Lugoman;786441]I’m just exploring the possible uses of these two WC techniques. What do others use these techniques for?
We were doing drills using Gan Sau to defend against mid level round kicks and I didn’t seem to see a purpose for that Tan Sau to be there. So…
Why is the Tan Sau in there? Why not just a Gan or Die Bong with a Wu Sau?[/QUOTE]
you can cover a round kick with a gun sao (ie tan sao+gan sao) and with a qwan sao. Better ways exist.. but honestly you can say that all the time. Many times you are surprised or take off guard or just plain scared. People don’t admit it but many people are scared even when sparring in a school. You loose you sense of timing, and reaction allot if you are really fearful. So you may miss the times when you can cover a round kick.. and you must gun sao.
You MUST use two hands to cover as much area of possible… honestly do you know the future? How can you say he will kick here and not here.
Yup and so would you if it was swinging at your head and you were surprised. Yes you make brake your hand… but I would rather brake my hand than get hit in the head … JMO
Sure thats a great strategy, but your assuming you are better than the opponent. You assume you will not be surprised or thrown off guard. I make no such assumptions, I always presume my opponent is a faster, stronger, smarter, more skilled fighter than me.
running in on a open kick in class is one thing, running in when someone times you out, and throws combos then places that kick on your face. Oh wait you would do something first to stop the combo’s right? I forgot you are more skilled than your opponent so its not a problem for you. EVERYONE ELSE is another story.
Uses for gan sao and qwan sao that I use.
sidekick = both VERY effective
front push kick = both VERY effective
round kick = qwan for high and gan sao for any range. I don’t use them as much as I use qwan lan gerk. or tan lan gerk.
hook (boxer)= both VERY effective
jab/and cross = both VERY effective
What makes it work isn’t really as much the gun sao or qwan its the timing, footwork, reaction.
I really get annoyed when people say they can fight with Wing Chun but don’t even know how to use the basic movements. You may not prefer the gun sao, but it can save you in tough spots.
Lugo man good question. I posted a magazine clip using some of these techniques do you want me to repost it?
Anerlich has hit the correct here. Good post.
Thank you monji112000,
You MUST use two hands to cover as much area of possible… honestly do you know the future? How can you say he will kick here and not here.
All I really wanted to know is what other uses there are for these “techniques” or “movements” or whatever and why the tan sau. THANK YOU.
I would love to read your article monji112000… and thanks again.
its not my article but I know the people in the article.
http://vbwingchun.blogharbor.com/_attachments/2965939/New%20Martial%20Hero%20Magazine.pdf
I thought thats what you wanted to know :D.
Its easy to say use this here or at this moment, this is the best ect..
but honestly somethings are better at sometimes while others are the best.
I will stand behind a gun sao. It works, its fast, and it can be a great thing to get you out of a bad situation.
[QUOTE=monji112000;786556]you can cover a round kick with a gun sao (ie tan sao+gan sao) and with a qwan sao. Better ways exist.. but honestly you can say that all the time. Many times you are surprised or take off guard or just plain scared. People don’t admit it but many people are scared even when sparring in a school. You loose you sense of timing, and reaction allot if you are really fearful. So you may miss the times when you can cover a round kick.. and you must gun sao. [/quote]
Didn’t say you couldn’t–just that it’s not the smartest thing to do. IF you’re surprised in a fight, or scared, go fight more. I don’t “fear” people or things, I react to them to the best of my ability. What I fear is the repurcussion of doing the wrong thing and making things worse. Therefore–I try to do the right thing. You also didn’t seem to notice that I said at the last part of my post “I understand when you have to (because of bad timing blah blah” did you?
You MUST use two hands to cover as much area of possible… honestly do you know the future? How can you say he will kick here and not here.
Wrong. You don’t have to use two hands all the time. That completely goes against efficiency. There are times yes, when you may cover (like in muay thai when the raised knee and elbow meet; or in WC when you use a gwun sao or whatever) but if you stay with the maxim of efficiency–than hopefully you will be doing your best to move in and strike simultaneously.
Yup and so would you if it was swinging at your head and you were surprised. Yes you make brake your hand… but I would rather brake my hand than get hit in the head … JMO
You’re entitled to it, and if that was the case and you had no choice, than covering is all you can do. No disagreement there.
Sure thats a great strategy, but your assuming you are better than the opponent. You assume you will not be surprised or thrown off guard. I make no such assumptions, I always presume my opponent is a faster, stronger, smarter, more skilled fighter than me.
running in on a open kick in class is one thing, running in when someone times you out, and throws combos then places that kick on your face. Oh wait you would do something first to stop the combo’s right? I forgot you are more skilled than your opponent so its not a problem for you. EVERYONE ELSE is another story.
Moron. JMO. Let’s not assume shall we?
What makes it work isn’t really as much the gun sao or qwan its the timing, footwork, reaction.
If your timing was right, you wouldn’t be standing at the end of a round kick to begin with…and if you were using your footwork, you wouldn’t be there and need to cover at all.
I really get annoyed when people say they can fight with Wing Chun but don’t even know how to use the basic movements. You may not prefer the gun sao, but it can save you in tough spots.
Don’t get annoyed…it’s just a forum.
I would rather be a moron.
I already knew that…but to clarify:
the statement was not so much meant for you as a whole (as I don’t know you personally) but moreso meant to show you that making a statement such as the one quoted is moronic.
I have made no assumptions about you—so please don’t do the same about me. Your argument is without merit as I’ve already stated that in emergency situations it’s understandable when all else has failed; but if you actually practice this move against this kick…than yes…you’re not so smart (and I use the term “you” in general).
IMO, from that PDF the inside of an ultra high, opposite side Tan Sao, as shown in the pic against a high round kick with REAL POWER will get you knocked on your butt..
If you have time to move your hands, esp both of them way the f%# up and over to cover you have enough time to evade…or move to a better position to attack and reduce the power of the kick or make it miss altogether..
[QUOTE=YungChun;786520]And sometimes you can just hit the guy… No not everyone but often enough and more so if you train to do it right.. [/QUOTE]
Like at the beginning of this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSI4Zj7-6-8
Best,
Kenton Sefcik
I think image C2 on page 2 looks a bit more practical.
The boney edge of your forearm is not quite as thick as someone’s shin.
The best solution is never to meet your smaller forearm with someone’s shin. If it’s an emergency, it is actually better to TRY to evade the power of the kick - even if you fail!
Or try to jam it with a knee or front kick them away. Even failing at evading or jamming usually works MUCH better than meeting their shin directly with your forearm.
its not my article but I know the people in the article.
http://vbwingchun.blogharbor.com/_at...20Magazine.pdf
I thought thats what you wanted to know .
Its easy to say use this here or at this moment, this is the best ect..
but honestly somethings are better at sometimes while others are the best.
I will stand behind a gun sao. It works, its fast, and it can be a great thing to get you out of a bad situation.
If you are going to cover with the Gun sao, I would suggest two things, 1) don’t hit the shin hit the ankle if you can. 2) if its a high kick line your shoulder up with the opponents leg, that way you have a straight line from your elbow ( area near the elbow is a good place to cover with) then you have a thicker bone against a thin bone.
The example that was shown uses a different idea. Both work just fine I have had nice welts from training, but no broken bones
YungChun so you are telling me that if I can move my hands, I can in the same frame of time move my whole body? I honestly don’t know how you move but I can move my hands a hell of allot faster than I can move my whole body.
If you don’t like the Gun sao thats fine with me, I think its laughable how many so called fighters can’t even apply the basics. I am like the bottom of barrel,… it just blows my mind
I often wonder what people do in Martial arts schools.. if they don’t fight do they … play ping pong..?
Here a nice idea outside of chain punch, pak sao or push kick can you actually give a set of techniques of a real fighting situation?
gun sao, qwan sao, low kick (s).
what about a basic boxer jab, jab cross? how would answer that (excluding jaming in like a moron chain punching, or push kick or pak sao)?