::IronFist pokes his head in to see what’s going on::
yenhoi, I think TMA = traditional martial arts?
To anyone who doesn’t believe in weight training and getting strong, what are you going to do when a 300lbs dude is sitting on your chest? Are you going to blast him off with a chi blast?
Strength also helps in everyday life. I had to move a 150lb safe the other day. I’m not saying 150lbs is a ton of weight or anything, but to pick it up I had to slide my hands under it between the bottom of it and the carpet, so I had to get very low in order to pick it up. If I didn’t deadlift and know how to pressurize my abs from weight lifting, I probably wouldn’t have been able to pick it up safely, or maybe not at all.
Yeah, those safes are heavy. This thing is like a 14"x16" square of crushproof, fireproof, axeproof, blowtorch-proof, heavy metal. So heavy for such a small thing.
Anyway, my point was that chi is not going to move heavy things for you.
I see you got all the answers and the maturity to go with it.
Next time might I suggest do a bit of research b4 you try to blast people and their style, because at the moment you simply look like an uninformed arrogant wannabee.
Keep going, maybe one day and maybe after a few yrs of more training experience a few things will become clearer.
Nobody is against getting strong, some of the old TJQ Masters where quiet strong and buff.
Problem with TJQ is that if you rely on your physical strength too much, you violate the principles of the style and are no longer doing TJQ.
I.e.:
You would be fighting but not using TJQ.
Anybody can research our strength training it is not secret(been discussed a few times on KFO), problem is not many people advance far enouh to learn it.
This is hard to see and understand from an external point of view, most westerners believe in stronger = better and superior.
Originally posted by Laughing Cow
[B]IMO, Bodyweigth exercises are benefitial, weights on the other hand where you try to isolate certain muscle groups is counter to what we try to achieve in my style.
[/B]
That’s where many people have misconceptions about weight training. Proper strength training will consist of big, compound exercises like squats and bench pressing, not isolation movements, like curls
no that last statement i made does not applie to tai chi quan, it applies to all kung fu that wasn’t changed since communism, the instructor says its true kung fu, even the mongolians were small and thin but they had mass amounts of power
That’s where many people have misconceptions about weight training. Proper strength training will consist of big, compound exercises like squats and bench pressing, not isolation movements, like curls [/B]
Not disagreeing with you.
One question:
How would I benefit from exercises that train/promote a different method of power generation to what my style uses?
Bench presses and similar are nice, done enough when I was younger.
maturity is: a european asking questions filled with myths and misconceptions, then ducking behind the word “maturity” when asked specific questions of himself.
Originally posted by yenhoi
[B]maturity is: a european asking questions filled with myths and misconceptions, then ducking behind the word “maturity” when asked specific questions of himself.
ok. I lose.
:rolleyes: [/B]
But I guess your maybe 5yrs by now in 2 MA have given you all the answers.
Maybe one day you will get to know what it takes to master a MA and it goes beyond time and hard work, nothing magical nothing special something so simple you will grunt when you realise what it is and you didn’t see it for years.
And will kick your butt for having wasted years not doing it.
You can spend plenty of time and effort in mastering something and never get there or even become mediocre.
Famous saying: " There are no secrets!".
Cheers.
P.S.: Finished your schooling yet and started to work?
I have had an interesting experience wrt. this question.
Years ago when I had just started training in my style, I asked my sifu if working out was good for my kung fu. He said no.
At the start of this year when I joined a gym, I asked the same question and his reply was that weights etc. is OK as long as I keep practicing my kung fu and be careful not to damage certain tendons in the chest/shoulder area.
There are two explanations I can see for the two different answers.
The first is that my kung fu may have advanced to the point where doing weights etc. is not going to affect my kung fu as long as I keep practising (I guess the kung fu training will help me maintain my flexibility etc). Maybe my technique is good enough that I know better than to rely on brute strength so doing weights will not pose a problem.
The other reason may be that he has come a realisation about how to make weights and kung fu work together effectively.
Or it may be a combination of the two
Seriously though, at least as far as Shaolin training goes, weight and body weight training was definitely a part of the curriculum.
Here is the explanation that I was given at my current kwoon and in my last TJQ style, very similar to your experience.
When I joined at the same time another guy joined who worked out regularly.
Sifu told him to stop weights for now, till he has mastered the bodymechanics and basic requirements(Fang song, moving with intent, etc), after this he could start to re-introduce weights and incorporate his physical strength into his MA.
I think it is the old case of chasing 2 rabbits at the same time and catching neither.
Yes, physical strength plays a role in TJQ too, but it is second to good principles and body-mechanics.
I agree with Joedoe in that I think you reach a level where other activities stop interfering with your MA, byt this time your MA has become a part of you.
Whoever said that weight training will make your tendons weak is full of it.
A tendon joins a muscle to a bone. When a muscle works to move a bone to cause an action, it pulls on that bone with the tendon. There is a sensory organ in the tendon that stops the muscle from working if the muscle is trying to pull more than the tendon can handle. It’s called the Golgi Tendon Organ.
Therefore, if your muscle gets really strong, the tendon has to be strong enough too, otherwise it will prevent the muscle from working.
Of course tendon strength is important in kung fu - it’s essential. But muscle strength absolutely does not preclude it.
Why would strenuous activity make your muscles tense? I think this is the root of the misunderstanding. Resistance training won’t make your muscles tense if you stretch before and after a workout. A good stretch after resistance training is essential. Then make sure that you also do soft exercises and plyometric exercises to maintain your speed and fluidity.
No matter how strong a muscle is, if you relax it then it is relaxed. Resistance training won’t make you tense. Not knowing how to relax will make you tense.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by IronFist
To anyone who doesn’t believe in weight training and getting strong, what are you going to do when a 300lbs dude is sitting on your chest?
Use secret technique - stick thumb up ass and break tailbone. He not sit again for long time.
Seriously, the main problem I see with the big strong guys learning kung fu is that it’s sometimes harder for them to learn proper technique and alignment because it’s so easy for them to succeed without it. Once they get it, watch out!
Originally posted by Youngmantis true but its much easier to use your tendons than your muscle, if you don’t have tense muscles from doing strenuous activities right?
Serpent is correct here. I find my muscles are usually tense from a day of office work, but loosen up after a good workout at the gym. Often makes me wonder if I should give up my career path and go into something more physical
The only danger in having strong muscles is that you may become tempted to use your muscular strength to succeed rather than using technique. And if you concentrate on how your body works while you work out, then you can learn how to use your muscles and tendons more effectively.
yes, not tempted but doing tense activities with your muscles will naturally make your muscles tense, and may be harder to forget about the muscle and just use the deep muscle the muscle that only is used to execute movement. I have learned though that pushups would not help strength in traditional kung fu, although i will still be doing them so my arms don’t get scronny
“yes, not tempted but doing tense activities with your muscles will naturally make your muscles tense,”
Not if you stretch them properly. Qigong is excellent for that, I find.
“and may be harder to forget about the muscle and just use the deep muscle the muscle that only is used to execute movement.”
Not sure what you mean here. The muscle is the muscle, no ‘deep’ muscle. The whole body should be used to execute movement, keeping your muscles relaxed.
“I have learned though that pushups would not help strength in traditional kung fu,”
I don’t agree. They will strenthen your body, your whole body to an extent, and its not having strength thats a problem in Kungfu, its applying it incorrectly.
"although i will still be doing them so my arms don’t get scronny "
Heh, me too dude.
Anyway, I think you’re labouring under some serious false impressions here.
