Kung Fu bothers me

MightyB has hit the mark exactly.

It’s not really a sense of entitlement. It’s recognition of like.

Last night a blue belt from Cornell, NY somehow found my coach while on vacation down here and trained with us last night. He’s coming back today for no gi. My coach forgot to charge him. No big deal. We all had fun and got to play with a stranger. It was positive.

As far as entitlement, I don’t know what to call what I thought should have happened when I called my master of several years and told him, “Master, I’m in NY for a couple days. Can I come by and train?”

His response: “What do you want to come here for. You’re a grabber now.”

[QUOTE=Ray Pina;880893]BJJ, Thai boxing, Judo, even TKD has found its way into today’s top fighting venues. They have earned the right to talk… who hasn’t been known to stretch a fish tail here and there?

Kung Fu talks as if it has battled its way out of jaws of Megladon, when in fact it remains a guppy barely afloat in its own secluded fish bawl.[/QUOTE]

Kung-Fu seems to attract alot of people who should up their dosage.

[QUOTE=TenTigers;880897]Kung-Fu seems to attract alot of people who should up their dosage.[/QUOTE]

somewhere in the past 10 to 15 years, I don’t know exactly when, what or HOW, but in the past decade or so something has changed CMA… all for the worst IMHO

I can relate to this. I have a story of my own. I get to Beijing over two years ago I want to study Shuai Jiao and Bagua. So first I search out the shuai Jiao, cause it is slightly more important to me. So I find a place to train the teachers the nicest guy in the world, student where young but good kids who train hard and are nice and humble.

So when it is time to check out the Bagua school, I have already decided to do privet lessons cause I know the silliness that goes on in the Kung Fu world. So what happens I get to the class they are all foreign students. Within 20 minutes I am talking to a student who does Xing Yi he is telling me Xing Yi’ s for killing. I watch him do his form with a bad ass face on. Walk around the school with his chest up then work a partner application with somebody. So the drill is to do this application off a jab. So the Xing Yi killer is doing a half ass jab from very far distance not allowing the guy to work his technique cause he is too far away. Then the Xing Yi killer say to the guy. You’d be dead by now. His jab wouldn’t have hurt an 8 year old girl and he was too far away for the guy to practice his technique. Also I know for a fact this school never spars.

Back to the the Chinese wrestling. Guys train hard all the time nicest people to be around. NO tough talk just straight up hard training and good attitude.

[QUOTE=wiz cool c;880900]

Back to the the Chinese wrestling. Guys train hard all the time nicest people to be around. NO tough talk just straight up hard training and good attitude.[/QUOTE]

Having to actually do what you are training tends to have that effect.

[QUOTE=Ray Pina;880896]

His response: “What do you want to come here for. You’re a grabber now.”[/QUOTE]

What an asshole.

[QUOTE=puke;880838]if you don’t claim to be the best at something… it doesn’t really matter if you are. people who get bent out of shape over the notions of egotistical urges to prove ones worth leads to competition… competition only satisfies the ego. the best fighters do not fight… they don’t have to.[/QUOTE]

Bullshit that is, Obi-Wan. Out of your ass you must pull your head, yes.

I missed the “grabber” quote, dear lord :rolleyes:

I will never get this… I’ve said it a million times already, my sifu went to study western boxing and Japanese Judo… I’ve trained and continue to train with others all the time. We just got a former OSU wrestling coach in the gym!!! New toys :smiley:

I’ve taken my guys to seminars by Muay Thai’s Kansak, CHute Boxe’s Rua brothers, Erik Paulson, etc … so they can be exposed to more stuff and to open their minds

I can only really come to one conclusion when I hear stuff like this, raging insercurity and lack of faith in what you do

I just think there’s so much bull****, and I’ll be honest I’ve contributed in the past but not anymore. I think some people just don’t want to work hard, and they don’t like things flying at their face or getting hit. I see it thewith newbies that start training at the school I’m at all the time. People are just afraid.

However, they usually get better as long as you bring them in slowly with light sparring drills, and such. Yet, if the idea is fostered that if you do these forms, solo or otherwise you will be deadly. Definitely too deadly to spar. It’s absolute BS 100%.

I’ve challenged some of these guys to a match who thought they were too deadly, and told them that I didn’t care if they thought they would kill me. Not one ever took me up on it.

On Fear

No one likes or wants to get hit.

Proper training takes the newbie and starts to form attributes and qualities that soon have the student seeking out higher levels of challenges. When I was teaching my problem was explaining to guys why they had to wait a few more months before they could go 100% live against some of the more experienced guys. They felt so good about what they drilled they couldn’t comprehend that they could get into trouble from what they haven’t trained yet.

Good training fosters the ability, will and desire to mix it up.

It’s not just kung fu unfortunately. I had a buddy who did boxing for awhile and thought he was some tough man cause he knew how to throw a jab cross, and a hook. He always talked about how he beat so many guys in so many fights so one day I got a chance to spar with him a bit. Even though I went really easy and didn’t even use hard contact, just slapped him around, It was sad. But still, the ego continued because he knew I had much more experience in boxing, so thus that must be the reason I beat him. So one day I get him to spar with my cousin who weighs 5lbs less than him, and has no experience in boxing whatsoever and I tell them both to go all-out with gloves and headgear on. The big-ego guy got destroyed. For a full minute he got smashed and thrown around until he had to quit because he couldn’t take it anymore.

And ya know what he learned? Nothing. He still has the ego and talks big about his boxing abilities, but now when I ask him to spar or train with me he won’t dare, lol.

So the moral of the story is that you are tough… :rolleyes:

too bad your teacher is a bit of a wad there ray, but it happens.

as for internet site memberships, well, it is pretty safe to say that that has little if anything at all to do with kungfu.

perspective mang. :slight_smile:

Interesting posts all around. Here’s what I’ve thought about on this.

Pre-industrial CMAs/JMAs were frequently being tested, applied, and modified in military, police, and self-defense situations. Their historic reputations are well-deserved.

They also found a unique place in certain spiritual practices, with spiritual seekers using combat as a means to practice and develop awareness. Again, well deserved reputations.

CMAs did not, however, adapt to the post-industrial sports world as fast or as well as they could have. Perhaps the masters, traumatized by the cultural revolution, struggled too long to preserve the old ways. Or maybe the sports initiatives put forward by visionary Martial Artists were co-opted by a government with no interest/understanding in the market values of such sports. Or maybe the sports initiatives put forward by CMA proponents outside of Asia weren’t strong enough, since they had to compete with pre-existing combat sports ranging from boxing and fencing (old school,) to Judo, Tae Kwon Do and Muay Thai (post-WWII Asian exports with US Army backing), to BJJ and MMA (contemporary combat sports.)

The two true CMA sports that we see today are Wu Shu and San Shou/Da. Both are valid, and both have wonderful, unpretentious athletes. Both are relative latecomers, though, and the market value of these sports is still very low. San Shou/Da in particular seems to have been surpassed by MMA, and I doubt that it will recover. Still, if someone trains at a school that focuses on at least Wu Shu or San Shou, the experience can and generally should be a positive, fulfilling one.

That leaves a load of CMA (and JMA) schools that have no connection to sports whatsoever. For the sake of argument, let’s assume that a portion of these schools are spiritually oriented, another portion are health oriented, a third are traditional, and the rest are, well, I’ll get to that in a moment.

The spiritually oriented schools may very well focus on the idea of warriorship. The difference between warriors and fighters is an often misunderstood one, and is probably deserving of its own thread. In brief, a school that trains warriors may not necessarily train competitors, yet still develop practitioners of firm character, grounded in realism and practicality.

The health oriented schools make no effort to even imply fighting skill. They exist in the same vein as Yoga or Aerobics. I’d say that a quality health-based CMA school is less deluded about fighting ability than your average tae-bo, boxercise or aerobic kickboxing class. Training with these people is like stretching or running with a group of friends. No real pretenses, just lots of fun. I admit, though, that this is probably the second smallest category of CMA school.

The traditional schools are dwindling quickly, and have been for a long time. I’d say that a travelling MA researcher would be lucky to find one true traditional instructor every 5-10 years. My definition of a true traditional instructor is one that trains in the old ways and is not afraid to demonstrate, test, or share his/her skills in the presence of an unbiased audience. In 10 years of training and travelling, I’ve met 2. One’s a Chen guy, the other’s a Wing Chun guy. Like I said, they’re few and far between.

This leaves us with a load of CMA/JMA schools that are not sports based, not spiritually based, not explicitly health based, and by the above definition, definitely not traditional. I’d go as far as to say that the MAJORITY of CMA/JMA schools fall into this McDojo/McKwoon category. The shenanigans found in these schools are amazingly varied, yet invariably related to the ideas of power, control, and money. They abuse traditions to attract a gullible public, and continue to rely on the historic reputations of their arts, without ever thinking they ought to add to them.

I’ve said nothing new in this post. I just think it’s important to remember that 95% of the problems with the Martial Arts are school related, not art related. As long as a school is honest with itself about what goes on there, I don’t think there’s any need to bash it.

CSP

I don’t think your previous teacher was being a “wad,” or whatever, Ray.
I think he still remembers that you were going on and on, all over the internet, on different forums, how you felt that his students could not fight, and that you were the only one who could.
Sure, you were going out and fighting, and testing yourself, and you felt that your doing so was representing your Sifu’s teachings, even if it was without his approval. And yes, your teacher was and will always be a fighter.

But, your words and comments about his students whether you agree or disagree, whether you like it, or not, are saying that HE is not a good teacher, as a teacher is only as good as the students he produces.

What you did was in his mind, character a$$asination. He in turn, reacted accordingly.
It may all be water under the bridge for you, but not for those you have hurt and offended. In this case Ray, you can’t go home again.

just for the record, you can say ass tt. :slight_smile:

***!
hey, you’re right!
!!!!!!
***!!!

***!
(this is fun)

[QUOTE=unkokusai;880913]So the moral of the story is that you are tough… :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

You missed it entirely… the moral of the story is that delusions of grandeur aren’t limited to kung fu. Some people will do anything to protect their blown up egos.

[QUOTE=JGTevo;880929]Some people will do anything to protect their blown up egos.[/QUOTE]

So it seems…

[QUOTE=TenTigers;880923] And yes, your teacher was and will always be a fighter.
.[/QUOTE]

How do you know?