If that will satisfy you…
… now what was the point to your question?
Re: If that will satisfy you…
Originally posted by reemul
… now what was the point to your question?
Just so we are on the same page, you admit that the number is zero?
HIS point is the same point I made ages ago:
We ALL follow a set of rules in our training or competitions for safety reasons.
YOU follow rules in the kwoon. THEY follow rules in the ring.
So arguing that “your techniques are not allowed” is a bull**** comment.
YOUR techniques aren’t even allowed in YOUR training! It’s only a simulation!
Just as the UFC is a simulation of personal combat with a different set of rules.
All of this rules crap is a red herring. If you want to fight in the ring, fight. If you don’t, don’t. But don’t puss out with a bull**** excuse about “rules,” cause everybody’s got em.
That was the point huh
Well, then we must be having two different conversations.
I had already stated that UFC was not real and neither are most fights on the street. They have more to do with ego rather than self preservation. The UFC has rules so people don’t get killed. Many of your Traditional styles do practice alot if not all the techniques that are banned. But thats not to say a traditional stylist could not do well in the event as long as they trained according to the rules. I don’t recommend Traditional training if you plan to go into the UFC because rules basically define how you play the “game”. But none of this speaks to whether the banned techniques are effective.
My argument was aimed at the NHB inspired comment that techniques of traditional styles are improbable or simply do not work. I also pointed out that rare is the chance that someone with that level of training and skill will be involved in a street fight.
My argument has never been about justifying why Traditional MA don’t participate that often in UFC. Personally I think it has something to do with a different mindset. Most of the UFC fighters don’t strike me as MA masters, they all seem to have something to prove. Again its all about ego.
So what ever the point was, I fail to see the relevance.
Re: That was the point huh
Originally posted by reemul
[B]
My argument was aimed at the NHB inspired comment that techniques of traditional styles are improbable or simply do not work. [/B]
Just because they are never actually used? Go figure!
Many of your Traditional styles do practice alot if not all the techniques that are banned.
No, they are NOT practiced. They are simulated at best. But no more so than in any other place
Or do you have a lot of one-eyed people at your kwoon?
My suggestion was not that TCMA practitioners would, by their studies, fail at UFC style competitions.
My assertion is quite simple: That rules abound. They are not limited to the UFC, Pride, or any other event. You play by a set of rules at the Kwoon designed to ensure…
people don’t get killed
To believe otherwise is a mystifying sort of cognitive dissonance.
So, do you get it now?
I haven’t read the whole thread yet, but a few points.
-
The wrong assumption that if a kungfu school spars, knows some shuai chiao, and does San Shou, that means they can be as good as Boxing, wrestling, BJJ, or Muay Thai. Anyone I’ve met who knows about MMA, has told me Muay Thai and grappling is the way to go if you wanna get good, not San Shou. Emulate Alex Gong, NOT Cung Le.
-
Sometimes the fighters break the rules, and are disqualified, but the opponent is still laid out. Wes Sims grabbed the fence and stomped Frank Mir, he was disqualified, but everyone saw him KO Mir. And a rematch was needed to promote the sport and competition.
-
I often see people head spike the opponent, and NOT be disqualified at all.
I often see people head spike the opponent, and NOT be disqualified at all.
That’s because it’s usually legal.
To Merry prankster
I’m sorry if you have a reading disability,
But I agreed with the point you made and haven’t said anything to the contrary.
I believe my issue is with the styles affiiated with the UFC propagating that only styles that compete in the UFC are realistic.
To imply realism to me refers to life and death street fight.
I’ve made no mention of my school or what I do so to even bring it up is doesn’t serve your argument.
Re: To Merry prankster
Originally posted by reemul
[B]
To imply realism to me refers to life and death street fight.
[/B]
So realism means doing something that you have never, ever done before and just hoping that it will work because someone convinced you that it would?
unkokusai, take it away!
As far as eye gouges and tiger claws being impractical theory, you have never fought someone who has properly trained and conditioned for proper execution. If an individual is capable of poking a hole through a quarter inch piece of wood, that is more than enough to take out an eye (prividing you hit your target).
Also with regard to tiger claws this is not simply technique, it is the condition of hands to where they become thick and caloused to the point where finger tips can rip flesh. The more you bleed the quicker your energy will disipate in a lengthy engagement.
I play guitar and my calouses are nowhere near that which can be achieved through TG claw conditioning and I have cut myself before. So this is fact not theory.
On the contrary. You made some quite specific comments about how you train - and thus, one infers, your school.
Further, you stated that there is a difference between training for the street and sport. At least some of that difference, according to your own posts, is attributable to techniques.
It seems that even the casual observer should be able to make the connection that you feel - quite strongly - that there are certain techniques, ie tiger claw, windpipe grabs, etc, are part of street training.
You further contend that:
As far as eye gouges and tiger claws being impractical theory, you have never fought someone who has properly trained and conditioned for proper execution.
Prithee good sir, does properly conditioned and trained include actually executing the technique on person who does not want you to and who is actively trying to do something back to you?
Do you have many one-eyed training brothers, or people missing chunks of flesh?
Or do you just ship in desperate people needing some quick cash in return for the opportunity to poke out an eye?
Because if you do not do these things, then you are not actually practicing the technique. You are simulating it. And the reason you are simulating it is so…
people don’t get killed
…or maimed or unduly injured.
I’m betting that nobody at your school is actually practicing these techniques and that you are not actually practicing these techniques. You are simulating them. And there is nothing particularly “real” about that. You cannot point out the flaw in “UFC logic” (ie, that sport events are simulated not “real” combat), without acknowledging that you are hostage to the same issue (ie, that kwoon training is simulated, not “real” combat).
Take a writing class
I have made no comments in first person with regard to training tiger claws or any thing else related to MA.
Also with regard to tiger claws this is not simply technique, it is the condition of hands to where they become thick and caloused to the point where finger tips can rip flesh.
I did make a commnent on calouses from playin guitar.
My stance on the subject is simple.
Assumptions that techniques that are considered traditional style are improbable and just theory that doesn’t work is nothing more than fighting sport propaganda.
What makes someone potentially dangerous is not what they know, how well they know it, and not how many years they have spent training. What makes someone dangerous is how far they are willing to go when the punches start to fly. The biggest hurdle in maiming someone or killing them is a mental issue. Most people have difficulty with this and some have less. It has a lot to do with the mindset your school promotes.
In many traditional schools its not just about technique and conditioning, its about achieving a certain mindset. And a sport mindset is significantly different than a combative mindset.
your logic of simulating technique and not practicing the actual thing, and therfore it doesn’t work … well that is just nonsense.
Our U.S. troops who went straight out of bootcamp to Iraq where simulating fighting, and they seem to be handling the adjustment.
This discussion can go round and round and I think we beat the horse to death. I do know what some individuals are capable of and you think otherwise.
The proof is on the mat or on the street and I have no interest in killing you. (just kidding hahahahaha)
Re: Take a writing class
Originally posted by reemul
I do know what some individuals are capable of
How?
Simple really
I have eyes
Re: Simple really
Originally posted by reemul
I have eyes
Oh! So you’ve seen these people maim and kill others?
Yes
You know I’m starting to believe that you have lived a sheltered life, cuz I have trouble understanding how you cant seem to accept that there are brutal people in this world.
Now I’m not saying such people are mean or evil just that when put to task are willing and able to resort to what some would consider extremes.
The only thing I can suggest, because you apparently don’t wish to lend any plausibility to an opposing argument, is to go find a real old school KF practioner who has no qualms about F&*^%ing you up and fight him. You will most likely have trouble finding one, kinda goes against most school ethics. But you might.
usotsuki
So, when you said “yes”, were you indicating that you have seen the people you train with use your super-deadly theory techniques to kill and maim? That must have been pretty interesting.
Re: Yes
Originally posted by reemul
[B]
The only thing I can suggest, is to go find a real old school KF practioner who has no qualms about F&*^%ing you up and fight him.
You will most likely have trouble finding one, [/B]
lol
I don’t doubt that!
Re: Yes
Originally posted by reemul
You know I’m starting to believe that you have lived a sheltered life.
Yeah, I don’t seem to have as much experience as you with imaginary techiniques.
Wait a minute…