What makes a style a Kuen, Do, or Pai??
the founder, promoter, copywriter…
Classification or categorization is usually after the effect.
meaning many and many years later, with many and many students or people doing the same group of things.
such as Jiang rong qiao ba gua with a lot of xing yi in them.
2 generations of the students later
they are called xing yi ba gua or jiang -> zhang zhao dong->–
the other example
Liang zhen pu (last disciple of Dong hai chuan)-> Li zi ming-> zhang quan liang
they are called liang style ba gua etc.
–
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;896695]What makes a style a Kuen, Do, or Pai??[/QUOTE]
kuen=fist methods
do= way or system
pai= filial in nature, a family style
Certain ones are interchangeable to a degree.
You can call Hung style;
Hung Kuyhn (Hung Fist)
or
Hung Ga (Hung Family)
However today, most people use Hung Kuyhn, when they are referring to non-Wong Fei Hung lineages of the Hung Style. (I believe most do) and Hung Ga when they are referring to the WFH lineage.
You could say Lama Kuyhn, but most say Pai.
You could say Choy Lay Fut Kuyhn, but you would not say Choy Lay Fut Pai (at least, no one I know uses that).
The five family styles are almost always referred to with “GA” only, Hung*, Mok, Choy, Lay and Lau. *See Hung Kuyhn above
I don’t know of any older Chinese styles that use “Do” or way. I could be wrong, but I always link that to Jeet Kuyhn Do, and Jap/Korean styles i.e., Tang Soo Do (originally Chinese Hand Way (until the Government was like, “WTF”? Change that to Tae Kwon Do immediatly! - Foot Fist Way -Yes, much better - NO CHINESE HERE! KI-HOP!)
Real Chinese systems don’t use “do”…
Really, you don’t have “either/or”
The classical name for Lama is
“La Ma Pai Kuen Suet”
Most just say “La Ma Pai”
“Hung Ga Kuen Suet”
Some say “Hung ga” others say “hung Kuen”
What is “Suet”?
And what, generally, is the differnece between a Pai and a Men?
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;896756]What is “Suet”?
And what, generally, is the differnece between a Pai and a Men?[/QUOTE]
it’s the fat that builds up around your kidneys. 
pai= clan/family
men=“gate”, “door” or more often meaning “society”
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;896758]it’s the fat that builds up around your kidneys.
pai= clan/family
men=“gate”, “door” or more often meaning “society”[/QUOTE]
Men can also mean “sect” though, right? So what’s the difference between that and a clan?
sect would denote some sort of religious affiliation.
Less familial. AFAIK “Men” does not donate a religious affiliation per-say. IIRC “Men” denotes a more open school… I could be wrong.
AKAIK, “men/mun/moon” seems to be used interchangeably with “pai”. In fact there is a compound term of “mun pai”. My knowledge is not very broad but I don’t think there are many “mun” are there? I’ve heard of “Yau Gung Mun”, and at a push I would count Hung Mun though I consider it more a political/cultural society.
If pushed for a definition I would say that a “pai” has a martial arts curriculum that promotes a particular martial art/style, a certain degree of standardization and a mandate to continue their traditions.
How is that different to a “mun”? I think that the “mun” has no particular agenda to promote a given art. It could be a conglomeration of different styles. I am thinking of something like the “Chin Woo” (Jing Mo) society founded by Huo Yuanjia (Fok Yuen Gap).
I seem to remember reading some newspaper articles that even refer to Wing Chun as a “pai” (in Yip Man’s time). It might have been imprecise use of the term since reporters may not care about the various distinctions.
men is actually bigger than pai.
men would be the door or school etc.
pai is a division of men.
but sometimes they are used to mean the same things.
So what “men” would Shaolin pai or Wudang pai belong to?
I think they are actually very different things. The pai is the abstract and the men is the physical instance of the pai. When people enter a school/pai/sect etc. to study, we say “ru men” (“yap mun”, enter the door). Students are thus “men sheng” (“mun saang”).
In a scholarly text, men is bigger.
Here is the order of classification, Jie Men Gang Mu Ke Shu Zhong.
Jie would be the kingdom, field such as heaven, earth, people and animal kingdom etc.
Men would be the next order of classification.
Shao lin men is also commonly used.
the order of shaolin etc.
Pai is used to divide.
If we refer to CMA, there are this shaolin pai and wu dang pai of MA etc.
I am the last surviving master of Kuen Do Ga Men Pai…
and I am the 3rd gen of Jin Wu Men. not jin wu pai.
the founding father is huo yuan jia.
edit:
not true.
you are forgetting that Chinese like to shorten and apprviate
Men Pai (Myuhn Pai) just becomes Men or Pai… linguistically speaking, how can a men (a door) be bigger than a pai (a society or sect)?
Hung Ga Kuen Suet becoms either hung ga or hung kuen
(suet = shu btw)
I’ve said it before, but the proliferation of “hung kuen” branches owes at least in part to
“red pole’s fighting technqiues”
“hung gwun kuen faat”
being shortened to
“hung kuen”
agreed that men and pai are used together to mean the same thing.
however;
in Japan, such as karate do or karate men.
there are so and so ryu or liu (pai).
so and so ryu or liu (pai).
men pai is bigger than liu pai then.
just having fun with words.
so for example:
Shaolin Temple aka Shaolin Men Pai (shaolin men/shaolin pai)
inside the temple: styles: Shaolin Liu He Quan (Siu Lam Lok Hop Kuen), etc.
Would there be a
Shaolin Jia Quan (Siu Lam Gar Kuen) like Hong jia quan (Hung Gar Kuen)?
How about in my styles context. We call it Ying Jow Pai.
100 years back it was known as Fan Zi Ying Jow Men/Ying Jow Fan Zi Men
So it could also be called Ying Jow Men = Ying Jow Pai in meaning?