I was doing some weapon sparring today. I was using a wood practice Jian and my brother was using a mock-Kwandao that we came up with. In all fairness, my wood Jian is half the weight (at most) of a real jian and his “Kwandao” was at least 7 lbs too light but - hey - you do the best you can with what you have. One problem I noticed was that with the huge blade and massive reach of the “Kwandao” my brother could keep me pretty much constantly on the defensive. I was rather lacking in good opportunities to attack. If I had been using the Dao I have some strategies to bridge the gap against pole weapons but they wouldn’t adapt too well to the two-edged Jian. What strategies exist that are good for closing the gap in a Jian v. Spear/Polearm situation?
attack the front wrist/arm holding the kwandao first, and work your way up. Because of your range, you need to try to get inside his blade. Remember to avoid direct blocks, try to use body position to lure him to over commit.
Just some ideas.
Many moons practice sticky sword and sticky pole technique.
Confucius say, “MAKE NO JOKES ABOUT STICKY POLE TECHNIQUE!”
Seriously though, are you using your sword to stick to the pole? Or am I speaking Greek?
Thanks for the tips. Now I just have to figure a way to convince my brother to over-commit. (He usually commits less to his initial shots and turns up the heat after he has hit a few times when we spar bare hand and with staff-type weapons he also trys to keep his weight back and play it safe.
The best I was doing was attacking his legs but whenever I got an opportunity to drop low, I would have to pull back to avoid getting “chopped in half” 
I’ll try attacking his lead hand more. I got a couple of those through… Thanks!
I do try to stick my sword to his pole but it is one thing that my Sifu hasn’t gotten into much detail about lately (he just recently decided to start teaching some of us Jian a few months back - before that there was mabey 3 people in the kwoon aside from him that knew any of it). I will make sure to ask him about that the next time I get into the kwoon.
jian easily.
physics. fast thrusting weapon + mobilty vs. slow powerful slashing weapon.
Jian comes out of the gate with thrusts and weaves inside, too close for efficient kwandao work.
When weapons became based upon personal combat vs. war the “rapier” like weapon became the champion with good reason.
That’s why I specified the weight discrepancies. His mock up Kwandao at most was the same weight as my wood Jian replica.
Don’t focus too much on sticking to his weapon, the goal is to hit him, not the weapon. Make yourself a threat to him, so he’ll worry more about protecting himself than attacking you. Remember he got a heavier (in theory) and longer weapon, it’s a bad idea to receive heavy blows from him. Instead, pressure him, and take the initiative.
Idea:
Feight a thrust to his head ( make sure it’s threatening ), he’ll likely try to parry you, withdraw the blade before he makes contact, and go for a thrust to the body. Make sure your body position is shifted when you attack, so you don’t end up getting hit.
Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
[B]jian easily.
physics. fast thrusting weapon + mobilty vs. slow powerful slashing weapon.
Jian comes out of the gate with thrusts and weaves inside, too close for efficient kwandao work.
When weapons became based upon personal combat vs. war the “rapier” like weapon became the champion with good reason. [/B]
Yah, but how many spear vs. rapier duels where there? These are two different weapons for entirely different purposes. Choose the right tools for the job:
Kwan Dao on a battlefield with armor on horseback…Jian would be almost useless.
One on one duel, kwan dao is too slow and heavy and will be outmanuevered by the jian.
Drop the kwan dao and use an eyebrow height staff, mind the fingers…there’s a matchup for you.
Drop the kwan dao and use an eyebrow height staff, mind the fingers…there’s a matchup for you.
That’s a matchup that my 'bro would like.
I’ve always been crazy about swords; Jian, Dao, Katana, European Swords, etc.
He likes poles - from staffs through spears all the way to big bloody Kwandaos.
Unsurprisingly we both like the Pudao though neither of us has had the opportunity to train with one.
throw your sword at his eyes and then go in. You still may kill you but people will speak of your foolhardy courage for years. And it might work so it’s a win/win, except for the being dead part.
kwan dao can be used as a thrusting weapon and can also disarm a swordplayer with realtive ease just through sheer weight and force of the weapon.
if the kwan dao hits first, the sword stops. and vice versa.
its a prac vs prac question.
however, kwan dao is heavy and if the weilder took big loose swings, or wasn’t strong enough to really control the weapon then the swordsman would find many pockets of entry available.
the kwan dao has more defensive abilty vs a sword than the sword has vs the kwan dao coming down on it.
also, rattan staff vs for real broadsword is not a good idea. I like staff but a for real machete or chinese broadsword will cut through it with relative ease. with enough strength, even teh hardwood staffs don’t stand a lot of chance if a real broadsword or machete is used. (after all aren’t these blade types used to harvest bamboo and cane and etc etc? )
i would give even bets on both because it depends on the weilder.
Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
[B]jian easily.
physics. fast thrusting weapon + mobilty vs. slow powerful slashing weapon.
Jian comes out of the gate with thrusts and weaves inside, too close for efficient kwandao work.
When weapons became based upon personal combat vs. war the “rapier” like weapon became the champion with good reason. [/B]
ST00 just climbed down the correct’s chimney and left it some presents.
i disagree mk.
i’d say the question is moot in context.
all bladed weapons were renedered inadequate with teh advent of teh gun.
up til that point, both jian and kwan dao had their users and were still used.
up til that point, both jian and kwan dao had their users and were still used
yep. arguing which weapon was better is like arguing which punch is better a jab or a hook. Both have their uses and if both are used effectively then they both work.
The context here is a two-man duel.
If we’re talking riding into combat on horseback against 1,000 angry Chinamen, then Kwan Dao wins. But that’s not the context of this particular predicament.
I’m not saying Kwan Dao is useless off horseback. I love big weapons. I’m a monk-spade man, myself. But, against a sword, you better be fast with that big ass blade. You’re not going to get many chances to miss.
Yeah but we don’t necessarily practice weapons because we expect to use them in combat on a regular basis.
I am aware that no matter how good I get with a sword I will probably never actually need to do any more than “weapon sparring” but I still think that in addition to the more practical aspects of martial arts weapon forms are worth learning. After all if nobody ever learns these arts they will disappear.
And if some cataclysm hits the world bullets may quickly become in short supply and then the survivors who know how to handle a blade may have heightened survival chances.
Ok, so the last point is a joke but you get my point.
Drop the kwan dao and use an eyebrow height staff, mind the fingers…there’s a matchup for you.
hardly. The jian would win easily.
What part of sharp thrusting weapon defeats slashing/blunt weapon in solo combat do you not understand?
Ex. let’s take a guy like our very own Gene Ching, who is a very good western fencer and give him a saber, or jian weapon and match him against just about anyone else on this forum with a staff.
9 of 10 says that Gene stabs a vital target immediately before the staff can even block
and even if so, the followup attack takes the staff holder so far off center that he will not recover to counter.
no contest. History has shown us this time and time again.
Meatshake swings staff like a baseball bat and breaks crappy wooden jian leaving opponent defenseless.
Meatshake snaps staff on his knee like the angry drunken oaf he is, and now has two smashing weapons. Meatshake wins by smiting his opponent with a staff made into two.
!!!
:eek:
!!!
well wasn’t musashi defeated by a staff wielder which spawned the muso sumthin sumthin style. that might be a bad example tho since he might of been using the bokken by then. someone has to correct me on that.
Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
well wasn’t musashi defeated by a staff wielder which spawned the muso sumthin sumthin style. that might be a bad example tho since he might of been using the bokken by then. someone has to correct me on that.
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He was beat with an oar if the “story” is true.
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a katana is another slashing weapon. A jian’s style of combat is not even remotely comparable.
I can’t wait until someone tells me they are going to counter the staff’s strike with a hard block. :rolleyes: