typical stacy reply
anyways …the mantis picture gave me a good laugh.
Skard1
thank you,
and your response gives me a good laugh, because I study mantis and those techniques are indigenous to 8 step PM. The snake as well. Many of our movements such as “black snake surrounds the neck” are chokes.
Perhaps its your own understanding of “what kung fu is” that is lacking. Maybe its not wushu forms and kickboxing after all.
Re: What the heck?? Check out his photos
Originally posted by NorthernMantis
[B]http://www.jasondelucia.com/kungfu.htm
Black Jack-
I’m sure that he is an accomplished fighter and martial artist but I wonder his kung fu’s authenticity. No questions needed, the photos say it all.
Ok time to dissect thi:s
His mantis looks like no mantis I’ve seen. It ooks like a karatesized mantis with one hook (alhtough in fighting you can fight in whatever way but he’s just posing). The classic mantis catches the cicada posture has two hooks. His left arm is too low and his elbow is flaring out.
For dragon he has a very very high kick. The dragon style was made for seizing and locking and from what I understand it is a southern style. Southern styles do not kick much and never that high. Even though I have heard that there are a northern version of the 5 animals (since the original shaolin kungfu came form the norht) it does not look like a Chinese type of kick. It looks more like something you would find in karate or tae kwon do.
For tiger…the pictures are enough.
His crane looks nothing like crane. Wether it be tibetan or southern white crane.
For the snake he’s holding the iron bridge hand that you usually see in hung gar and there’s no snake fist. What is that all about.
While I see him kneeing someone in the fighting pics I get the idea that he actually tried to fight like the one legged crane pose in the karate kid.
What hapened to leopard?
Hmm sashes were traditionaly made to hold up your pants and came in different colors just like regular clothes. It also says he went to fight Steven Seagal (aikido stylist?)
What is my oppinion you say?
1)John Delucia does not know the five animals nor does he know any kung fu as I did not see any evidence of it on his website.
2)Grapplers and mma can’t use John as an excuse for me anymore becuase I ain’t buying it.
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Rolls/Ralek is a liar with a capital LIAR !
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John probably learned formfrom a shaolin-do or under another bad kempo stylist trying to pass for a kung fu master. [/B]
The mantis i dont think its the cicada pose, he looks like he is in a right horse and his left hand gaurds his rib or groin and his right hooks a punch at the wrist down and in towards you!.
The Dragon is to plain hes doing a sidekick all i can think hes thinking dragon like bruce lee
then he shows a sidekick!!!?.
he doesnt say were its from im thinking maybe he knows kempo concepts and dabbles in traditional arts plus he has a fight record so he prolly teachs his concepts!. ?
http://www.jasondelucia.com/images/graciedown.jpg
one thing this pic you dont see much kungfu pics like this, like he looks like he is doing a traditional judo hip throw but tiger style in the low horse, and notice how his hands snakes around royces upperbody in a clawing bridgehand structure wheras judo guys sometimes look more stern and choppy; This makes me wish more kf guys like this would step up, as usually some people will look at animal styles and think why are you punching like you are a tiger wtf is wrong with you, pawing your hand out like a cat you look like a pansie:) From lack of hardcore massive competition you only see in the media patticake examples of kf demo’ed…like throw a bridge hand and strike counter then strike…wheras the original intention for styles like hungga is attack like a tiger stalking a buffallo or a lion fending off a pack of hyenas, not two tigers playing chess for territory batting at each other but not going all out:cool: I Think this is sad how untangible kf is in the masses like people tend to only get to understanding of thier bridgehands and main tools for hitting, and unless you belong to a elite club you dont really seems to see outlets for grilling your technique, to get to a point of gracies where they have proved thier understanding of ranges and leverages can stand up to other stylists, most kf focus with kf, its sad it seems thiers noone wellrepping kf, as you always read about the old masters who would goto other provinces test teachers and also take up challenges from foriegn boxers and wrestlers etc.. I Would like to see more!.
Anyone know where to dl clips of delucias comps?.
Use the fight finder. You should just have to type in his name.
Funny–Jason is getting the same flak on this thread from some people that Shooter’s Tai Chi gets from some of the Tai Chi guys.
Seems odd to me.
Ok stacy
if you say so…
looks more like mantis meets wing chun
Skard1
Gotta go with skarbro on this one
so…
what does wing chun have that 8 step mantis doesn’t?
yip man.
It seems like his record is decent. I haven’t watched many of his fights so I don’t know how good he is. I would like to see more Kung Fu’ers get out and kick butt.
Jason proved himself in MMA…
I guess he needs to prove himself to CMA.
I have met several 5 animal guys and can say that they are great standup fighters. I assume Jason is one also having seen several of his PANCRASE fights.
Originally posted by Merryprankster
[B]www.sherdog.com
Use the fight finder. You should just have to type in his name.
Funny–Jason is getting the same flak on this thread from some people that Shooter’s Tai Chi gets from some of the Tai Chi guys.
Seems odd to me. [/B]
Its a little different. People had a lot more info on shooter than we have on jason. The only info we have on jason is through his website which has a different 5 animals than the well known 5 animals. Whereas shooter posted on his knowledge of tai chi through things like the 5 positional strategy or whatever its called. I think you could compare the 2 if shooter mentioned something like taichis 3 positional strategy or something.
The reason i mentioned that it doesnt discuss lineage is that kungfu sites often discuss lineage and it would indicate if he actually knew or didnt know 5 animals. Lineage isnt an indicator of skill at all it just indicates whether or not someone knows a system. I could be the greatest fighter in the world but that wouldnt mean i could call myself grandmaster of say tai chi if i didnt know tai chi. Thats basically why i mentioned lineage.
I do however think its pretty stupid to try to judge whether or not jason knows 5 animals from looking at some poses he was in. So far the only proof that jason doesnt actually do 5 animals is that he lists a different 5 animals.
I sent an email to jason on this topic so we probably will know soon.
Originally posted by LEGEND
Jason proved himself in MMA…
I guess he needs to prove himself to CMA.
I have met several 5 animal guys and can say that they are great standup fighters. I assume Jason is one also having seen several of his PANCRASE fights.
This thread doesnt have to do with whether or not jason is a skilled fighter he obviously is! he is does have 32 wins and only 19 losses. This thread is about whether he ever learned 5 animals kungfu.
oh, well in that case, yeah its kempo.
makes me wonder though. Chinese arts that went to Japan started to take on a Japanese flavor. I wonder if they do the same thing in the US and other countries overseas from china.
Le nOObi–
What I find odd is that both of these guys are getting flak. I’m not knocking anybody.
And Lineage is highly overrated.
Originally posted by Merryprankster
And Lineage is highly overrated.
When im talking about that his site doesnt talk about lineage/ a kungfu site should im not saying if you come from a “better” lineage you are better im just saying the only way we can know that someone learned a style is if they say who they learned it from. I mean i wouldnt really need to know who jason learned kungfu from except that his site has what seems to be incorrect info on 5 animals.
I think a lot of the cma crowd gets to hung up on lineage.
An example, a kid learns a system of gung fu from a neighbor who he mows the lawn for and they become friends, lets say the kung fu is a system of fu jow pai, but the main point is the kid just trains out of this guys backyard, just two gents working out, one teaching, both learning, one day the kid asks the teacher, where did you learn your gung fu from, the teacher replies my dad, where did he learn it from the kid then implores, the teacher thinks about it as if it never occured to him to care, then replies he believes he learned it from a capitan he was stationed in the army with, just a group of men working out in a aircraft hanger and thats all his father told him, that and it was used to bring him home alive on a number of occasions.
No fancy scrolls, no ancient lineages, no ritual, no rank, no politics, just sheer training with purpose and honesty on all fronts.
I have a feeling there is more real gung fu like that then the “show me your papers” culture we see now.
fdgf
Good point black jack
True blackjack but I don’t care wether he know’s how to fight or not what I care about was if he really knew cma because I keep hearing trash about how kung fu does not work when they use him as an example. Basically what I’m saying is did he really represent cma in his early days?
I keep hearing people talk about Shooter. Who is shooter? Is he a good fighter? What is the general consensus on him? Any web sites for him? Thanks. Just wondering who you guys are refering to.
hes just some heroin addict that accidentally made it ring side durring an early ufc. do to his extreme state of euphoria he was moving his arms around in a dance to unheard music. people thought he was doing taichi and drug him into the ring where he was promptly beaten to death by a thai boxer.