In the recent E-zine article, Josh tells us how Partrick Berry in the IWF Worlds, after being selected to represent the US weighed in 44hrs pre-comp, 19 pounds over. With some good advice and hard work, over the nxt many hrs, *am morn of comp, he’s put in the work and is now weighing in at 1 pound under. Remember, the guy is representing the US and is competing in the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS here.
So now - just scraping through with 1…repeat 1…pound grACE…morning of comp, what does the guy do?..he eatys serveral meals and puts on 15 pounds!!!
Is this the standard of wude and committment the United States steps with to he world to represent? This Blew me away!!! Granted he workef hard and was more than likely pretty dammed hungry…but just not for the same thing I would’ve been. Did no-one think to reccommend shakes and fluids (like tea foe instance..a natural hydrateer and diuertic???)…or hell, maybe even a few hrs in a sauna, to clean up those last few pounds if food was totally too tempting? Even better, being a world class athlete, you’d think the gut would’ve have had the dedication and committment and patriotic spirit enough to, after all his work, and even in face of noteable abscence of his teacher, have enough integrity to at least qualify to step on the mat/in the ring…
What justifiable reason could you possibley give yourself to give in and comprimise qualification just hrs prior to comp???
According to selection proccess, this guy is one of the best the Us has to offer! I’m not even a freakin American and I feel jipped for you all. Granted he ended up jagging a bye…but it’s hardly the point!! How many of you would’ve walked the good walk and fought the good fight if in his place??? As aN upcomming competetitor, I am all of a sudden feeli ng strangely confident…in fact I feel the belts on my waist and the medals round my neck already! Tell me my kung fu brthers, with this self defeating thought and action…is this truly the best competition the US has to offer???
I will put this as easily as possible. I have fought sanshou and sanda weighing in at 185lb, and I have fought weighing in at 168lb, and the guys I fought in the lower weight class have a significant disadvantage for the most part in both size and power compared to me. That being said…all the guys I have fought for the final match after all eliminations have been about my size and weight, and did the same thing. I dont see anything wrong with it..fighting in my normal weight class if fine too, and more a test of raw skill..but also more likely to result in injuries and the like when you have to fight 3-5+ fights in one day. Thats just my input though.
Originally posted by blooming lotus
What justifiable reason could you possibley give yourself to give in and comprimise qualification just hrs prior to comp???
you mean, when ne put on that 15 pounds after weigh in? That didn’t compromise anything - you only weigh in once, so the weight that had recorded for him was 1lb under weight.
As for making weight before a weigh in, that’s nothing new, but 19 lbs in two days is pretty extreme…
What he is referring to is that the whole idea of dropping the weight and then getting it back on just before the event may indeed be legal but it definitely violates the spririt of the rules.
19 pounds IS extreme. It is not very healthy. However, dropping a large amount of weight just before and then gaining it right back will most likely do really bad things to the person’s staying power. … not to mention the bad effects on the heart.
Good thing he is young and that there are probably ambulances around.
Let’s just say it was a mistake that he came in that heavy. At that size 10-15 lbs is more common. Also he has 48 hours before he has to fight. I was never one to cut weight when I competed and never had to lose more than 2 lbs. Until 1997 fighters had to weigh in every morning during the competition. No most fighters lose about 10 lbs for the weigh-ins at IWF events. All the US fighters probably lost about 6 lbs to weigh in I would guess.
We also made sure that Patrick was not alone at any time. What he had to do was not safe.
I people should have to weigh in 1 hour before the event, to be more on weight.
There was more to that story though, I thought.
In the past, you could move up in weight class with no penalty; but this year it was determined you couldn’t.
I remember reading that it wasn’t expected that he’d have to drop to that weight, until he got off the plane.
Then again, didn’t he do pretty much the same thing in atlanta?
I understand the mentality of “why weigh more than you have to?”; but after cutting a lot to make weight in November & feeling like absolute garbage, I’m wondering if it’s worth the effort.
Seems to me that you could compete more efficiently/effectively if you fought at your prime weight. It isnt healthy to lose weight that much that fast, and if you think that it doesnt affect your ability… well, you would kick your own ass when you were 15 lbs heavier 2 days ago, to say the least.
It is true that in the Past fighters have been able to go up in weight but not this year. The fighter from Russia in Pats class did not make weight and watched the event from the Stands. That may have been lucky for the rest of the class.
well most boxers and wrestlers must be *******s and have no sense of the true spirit of it all cuz that is what many wrestlers and boxers do, they cut weight before a fight/match then load it back on. Most weight that is lost and gained is in body fluid not food. some will go even as far as to not swallow thier own spit. In most cases the body only needs 24 hrs to recoup most of it’s losses. not to say that it is a physically encouraged thing to do, but there aren’t any studies made aware very publicly about what adverse effects such conditioning can cause. Also, if the fighter is able to cut the weight then be rehydrated and fed to where they feel fine before they compete then the probable advantage may be thiers in weight and strength.
Anyone who has really competed knows how hard it is. It’s not just the opponent - not just the bout - not like the movies. There are rules and regulations, you gotta toe the line, play the game. On the high levels, like internationals, those rules are unforgiving. Doing things like tweaking your weight is just the tip of the iceberg. But such is the nature of competition. There’s more to being the best than just beating the other opponents. All competitive sports are a game - even NHB - and great competitors know how to use the rules to their advantage. It’s war, symbolic war because you must fight within the rules, but war none the less. And whatever you can do to make the most of your advantage that is legal, you must do. That’s the nature of competition. Nobody remembers who comes in second place but second place and his momma.
So I wouldn’t fault Patrick for doing what he did - that’s not bad wude at all. Quite the opposite, to be able to drop that weight that fast is exemplary and I personally applaud his dedication. I certainly couldn’t do that - I’m sure my body would give out in the ring if I tried (especially now ). What Patrick did was legal and therefore “fair game”.
the idealist in me would take issue with the “Fair Game” idea.
This is the old ends justify the means and the “It’s OK if everyone is doing it…” idea.
This is bad enough in sports. It changes how things are done.
However, how we play is often how we live.
Case in point… In the Nixon administration, Nixon et al. came up with a thing called Title XX for Social Security. It was supposed to be where ALL social service money came from. At that time, the states had to have 100% of their budget for social services available…but then the Feds would match their money - 25% from the state and 75% from the Feds. The idea was that the Feds matching funds would free up that 75% for the state to use for other projects.
Michigan discovered that the Title XX law did not explicitly spell out that the state had to have all of the money. So…they took their 100%, declared that amount of money to be their 25% and multiplied their social service budget by 4. The feds came in with the 75% matching. Bingo…Michigan just boosted their social service spending and budget by a factor of 4.
In 2 years, ALL of the states were doing the same thing. Now you have a BIG budget…
All from the idea of “That’s how the game is played…”
How we play…how we live…seems connected to me.
Also seems that we don’t expect too much of ourselves in the ethics areas many times…
But then, that is the idealist in me…
The realist in me says “You gots to play the game…”
ok …all fair statements, but i’m with the guru, 1 hr pre-event weigh in would be ideal. unfortunately at the moment that’s just not the way it is, however, I do know the attitude I’m seeing and it doesn’t change the way I feel about that school, it’s members, the US team or my up-comming chances. cheers folks, tnx for your insights and perspectives
Which would your rather be - an idealistic fighter or a realistic fighter?
Surely, weigh-in just before the match would be better, but it hasn’t been done that way in many fight sports, like boxing either. There’s probably a reason for that. However I stand by my earlier post. He would have been dishonorable if he had done something like fix the scales or pay off the judges to sudge his weight. To physically change his weight prior to the bout, within the realms of the rules, is perfectly acceptable, even commendable, in my eyes.
what the hell reason is there for weigh-in in the first place? yeh ok , it’s legal, but as far I’m concerned, it’s shifty. I can play you by the rules, uphold morals…and I’ll still kick that team reps as* …besides, if he’s eaten that much food, 15 pounds of it or was 19…fraid the guys gonna be a lil on the stodgey side…you can’t tell me he’d be fighting at his comfortable best or even more comfotable than he would’ve been if he had’ve abstained and chosen alternative. ok, by all means exploit the rules, it’s what players do, but I still know the character trait and fighters logic that’s gonna create me the gap I need. I saw it, liked it was amused and inspired by it ( the same way a fat dude inspires fitness and health). I’m nearly sure that won’t make sense to you gene, but it doesn’t have to.
let’s assume there is a weigh in 1 hr before the fight/match. You train your butt off and check yourself on your scale and come out just under. Then you go to weigh in and thier scale says you are 2 or 3 pounds over. To complicate things let’s assume the fight/match is a professional match or world championship or even more, a professional match/fight with a world championship on the line, so money and prestige both on the line. You’ve already been working your butt off so dropping 2 - 3 pounds in an hour seems slim, yet you knew that if you had a day or maybe even half a day you could do it. Not only that but you are a draw, spectators have paid wanting to see your fight. What then?
I know it’s a little of an extreme case but this is the kind of thing that would definitely occur and has occurred. Perhaps this is why weigh ins happen the morning of or day(s) before the event. Sure it isn’t entirely ‘wu de’ but hardly anything is free, definitely not a san shou event/world tourney.
why wouldn’t you just buy a really accuratepair of scales yourselfandwork with those???:rolleyes:
If you think you’re doing yourself a service di*king around with your weight, well bully for you dude, but for myself, rather than even risk comprimising what I work so hard for, I’d rather train and maintain at devision weight and be in full effect come event time…if you wanna at times work outside those standards, you’re really training a different situation. Agree or don’t..thx for sharing
Elevation affects weight as does time of day, because weight is rarely a constant. Getting a more accurate scale is never foolproof because you’re never assured the scale at the event is accurate or even consistant.
I’m not endorsing what Pat did. With his KO ratio I wonder how he’d do in a weight class closer to his walk-around weight. But I can understand why he did it, and it was not against the rules of the competition to do what he did.
). What Patrick did was legal and therefore “fair game”.