anerlich,
I’m sure that the Yip Man from the comparison/workshop will be the Yip Man that Sifu Meng successfully instructed before. Yours was a good question, and could have just as easily been left at that.
idea of neutral party is good
I would expand on the neutral third party idea. Said third party should likely be made up of 2-3 people who hold phds in history and anthropology and who do NOT practice martial arts. Fluency in Chinese would be mandatory.
No more amateurs performing research please.
Ultimatewingchun,
It seems like you can not be pleased at all. Instead of complaining all the time can’t you just come up with some kinda
solution? It would be more civil dont you think?
anerlich,
It seem like you are displeased on what the VTM presents, well atleast from what i’m reading. If you are so displeased why not email them and ask them questions that might resolved some of your anger. I mean, from my experiences with the VTM, they have been very curteous and generous, to me at least with their research.
Yours was a good question, and could have just as easily been left at that.
I thought I asked several good questions, and could have just as easily asked a few more.
Forgive me, but after reading:
Of course that’s already been done by the museum principals in “Mastering Kung Fu”, where they lumped the various Yip Man lineages in with everything else other than HFY and CS under “Popular Wing Chun” and then proceeded to denigrate it.
I stopped considering the remainder of your message, as I felt you were simply saying what has already been said many times. Perhaps that was not fair of me, and I should have endured the remainder of the negativity and addressed each question.
I think a fair answer to your question(s) is that it will be objective, from the VTM’s point of view, since it is their seminar, and they have a great familiarity with everything they will be introducing. Since you do not agree with them, you will not consider it objective. It is possible that the VTM might not be able to flick a lightswitch or shovel snow from it’s front step without it being portrayed in a negative light by certain people, but I’m sure that they will continue to do what they feel is right, and there will always be those that disagree.
Yes, it’s true I consider this thread part of a greater political agenda… Rene’s and Hendrik’s to be exact. Why else would Rene post this thread within hours of his last inflamatory thread being deleted.
It appears however that there are those that who are easily manipulated into an angry frenzy on this forum. Simply reference a two year old thread written by
Sifu Benny Meng TWC SIfu Alfredo Delbrocco and voila… Another pointlessly bitter thread with many false accusations.
Well here’s some more reference material for you…
HENDRIK SANTO MADE THESE CLAIMS
-
HENDRIK SANTO PROMOTED HIMSELF AS THE GRANDMASTER OF WCK IN THE SAME LIGHT AS CHI SHIM WCK GRANDMASTER ANDREAS HOFFMAN.
-
HENDRIK SANTO CLAIMS HIS YIK KAM WCK IS THE MOST ORIGINAL WCK.
-
HENDRIK SANTO CLAIMS THE WCK TAN SAO WAS FROM HIS ERMIE WHITE CRANE WATER PLAM.
IT’S TIME TO SEE THIS CHO GA WCK GRANDMASTER HENDRIK SANTO TO BACK UP HIS CLAIMS AND SHOW US WHAT HE GOT.
Here’s the link…
http://www.vingtsun.com.hk/forum/treplies.asp?message=1593&all=True
Duende,
hahahaha. Great Stories.
You can blame on or twisting words on Hendrik when you dont have the answer.
Do you realized that Rene, Victor, anerlich, Joy, and others doesnt practiced the same lineage of WCK?
As who is the inheritor… GM… I dont need those title. You want it take it.
truth hurts huh??
Things must be desperate that things have to be pulled out from
the cesspool of anonymity, trolling and cowardice that is the HK.VTAA/JKD list.
Poor form.
The VTM is Benny Meng’s school and operation and has its own opinions and agenda.No big deal. There are many wing chun schools and operations… and POVs-no big deal.
No conspiracy theories-just a wacky
Wacky fractious wing chun world.
JR alwas seem to sign off— gotta run. Cant use that.
I am nota runner- but I gotta zzzzzzzzzzzzz and work out-oops-
in reverse order. Cheers. Joy Chaudhuri
If it is such a cesspool, then why do you post there Joy???
Or is that another truth that hurts too much to face.
As to what drove me to post that link…
Let’s just say I’m sick of Rene and Hendrik’s hypocritical ****. Saying that they’re fine with other people’s opinions, yet constantly posting inflamatory threads themselves…
Look at this picture. WCK right?
Nah. it is the White Crane Weng Chun’s water shape hand.
how about this? WCK?
Nah, White CRane Weng Chun from Fujian.
A clear as it gets!
Duende,
Well said!
Others,
Da moose said it very clear. Everyone is welcome to attend. If you do not feel your lineage is being represented or properly represented. The doors have been and still are open. The VTM welcomes those that are willing to share. We are all WCK and should show respect to each other.
The VTM announces all workshops by all Grand masters that have presented. I make it a point not to miss them. I hope to see some of you there. To those of you who have such big issues with some of the information being presented show up and contribute. The VTM offers a healthy atmosphere for all lineages of WCK. We are happy to interact with all lineages. It is not uncommon to have several different lineages attend some of the workshops presented at by the VTM. You would not beleive how many different lineages I personally have got to experience first hand through VTM events. I love the fact that when I discuss most lineages I have some type of physical experience I can reference. In alot of cases it is first hand experiences with a Grand master or lineage holder themselves. I find this gets in the way with some people who just read about them and assume.
<Phenix wrote> Do you realized that Rene, Victor, anerlich, Joy, and others doesnt practiced the same lineage of WCK?
The gents listed seem to have an unhealthy attraction to any thread concerning Shaolin/Wing chun connection. a few of them cannot seem to leave any thread alone that has a HFY or CS member on it. I mean a couple of them even hi jacked a thread discussing someone’s positive experience with GM Hoffman. It is very clear that some personal issues are there. I hope they find resolve just not on this forum. I think we all have grown tired of these Jr high school anticks. I know I have. :rolleyes:
Chango
Sorry sir,
This is also White Crane, Picture taken decades ago
Duende ,
Since I post the Whtie Crane water shape hand picture and more picture from White Crane Weng Chun to support my thesis on White Crane Weng Chun with WCK.
I expect you to post some old pictures from variaty sources to show conncetion with Shao Lin too, since that is your thesis.
Truth doesnt hurt.
But I am not feeling great when others are hurting.
Showing pictoral simularites between Southern Shaolin/Fujian systems, does nothing to prove or disprove either of our beliefs. And besides, my problem with Rene and you is not your beliefs, or your research. It is your constant political asassination atempts on my school. Using your logic, I could just as easily claim that White Crane is derrived from Wing Chun.
PAGE 37 “MASTERING KUNG FU”…
It should be noted that the five Shaolin elders may be a metaphor for five different secret societies founded by the monks. They may also simply be a historic metaphor for other variations of southern Shaolin martial systems. Those systems can overall be referred to as the Fujian system. Some of these systems are so technically related that they seem to be just variations of each other, and they all share similar legends about their origins. Their differences seem to grow with the passing of each new generation as they become more and more public. With their public identity, they became increasingly focused on individual personality and the passing on of that expression rather than on the principles, concepts, and structures that were agressively adherred to when they were secret societies. The following systems, which share some serious similarities to Chi Sim or Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun, reference their roots to the Southern Shaolin Temple and can be considered part of the Fujian system: Chu GA Tong Long (Southern Praying Mantis), Ng Jou Kuen (Five Ancestors Boxing), Fujian Bai He (White Crane) , Bak Mei (White Eyebrow), and Lung Ying Kuen (Southern Dragon Boxing). They all share similar legends and employ many similar techniques.
Originally posted by duende
[B]
1, Showing pictoral simularites between Southern Shaolin/Fujian systems, does nothing to prove or disprove either of our beliefs.
2, Using your logic, I could just as easily claim that White Crane is derrived from Wing Chun.
[/B]
1, you asked me to prove about Water shape hands I showed it to you. from various sorce.
Now, I asked you to show old pictures to support your thesis. Easy as that. You have it show it.
Add the following attachement too, by the White Crane people.
See if you can get a Shao Lin system or Soong San Shao Lin with 350 years of CLEAR history recorded in both Qing official record with private record similar to White Crane Weng Chun to support your thesis.
Here I show you White Crane support to my thesis. You need to show your also.
2, See, I dont even condlude a word yet. I just presenting pictures and White Crane Weng Chun’s article.
http://hk.geocities.com/yongchunwhitecrane/
From the same site of Whitecrane Yongchun.
²M°®¡A¹Å¦~¶¡¡A¥Ã¬K¥ÕÅb®±²Ä¤T©Î²Ä¥|¥N¶Ç¤H¤_ªT®v¤Ó¡A
¦b¥Ã¬K¥ÕÅb®±ªº¶¯«p°ò¦¤W¡A¥[¥H³Ð·s¡A¨Ã±N³oºØ¹ñ·sªº
®±ªk¶Çµ¹ÄYµú¬K¡A¥ÑÄYµú¬K»P¨ä¤Ò±ç³Õ¾©µo´_¥ú¤j¡A¤H_?br /> ºÙ³o¥ÑÄYµú¬K¶Ç±Ð¥X¨Óªº·s®±ªk¬°¡uµú¬K®±¡v¡]¥Ã¬K®±¡^
¡A¤]´N¬O?#123;®É_·¦æ¥@¬Éªº¼sªF¡uµú¬K®±¡v¡C
Translation,
In Qing Dynasty’s era of Chien Long and Chia Emperor. Weng Chun White Crane’s third or forth generation follower, Nun Ng Mui , with her strong back ground in Weng Chun White Crane Kuen, creating her new style, and passed this new styel to Yim Wing Chun, … people called this new style Wing Chun Kuen or Weng Chun kuen. That is today’s world popular Wing Chun Kuen from Canton.
Hendriks logic ! LOL!
So here we go using Hendricks logic check out the pics LOL!
http://www.undergroundkungfu.com/pages/sifu_performance.html
So now we are not only from Bak Mei but also Southern mantis as well. Hendrik come on man LOL! You have to look deeper then a few simular looking movements. We all are taught from day one that kung fu goes beyond simple technique. So why would we go back to looking at technique or movements to seek connections in origin?
Chango :rolleyes:
“As who is the inheritor… GM… I dont need those title. You want it take it.” - Hendrick
Um … don’t you hate it when your ego comes back and bites you on the arse? If you don’t need it why did you profess that as your position in the Cho Gar WC family? HAHAHA …
I bet you’d have a better response if someone print one in a book for you, huh?? What a tool !!!
-David
does this look like your wing chun?
http://www.rembrandt.gen.nz/white_crane/images.html
Hmmm …
- David