Regarding the Chin Woo’s Tan Tui - what I’ve heard and read is that the Tan Tui of Huo Yun Jia was not preserved there.
Zhao Lin He who was also a Mizong Stylist is said to have taken his 10 road Tan Tui and restructured it thus ending up with a 12 road set.
Perhaps he just had also learned Shaolin’s 12 Road version and taught that instead?
Isn’t Kuoshu’s standard Tan Tui 10 Road Routine also from the Mizong Style?
Yeah, the 12 section Tam Tui routine is the first form taught in the Chin Woo school and is often taught (to beginners) in two groups of 6 movements. Jie Tan Tui (2 person spring kicking) is another of the Chin Woo fundamental routines.
What I meant is that the tam tui could be done as a two person set, the first half corresponding to the second half. I know I read about one tradition that did that.
I don’t think it was the Chin Woo Tradition though because I know that one through 7-Star mantis.
Greetings,
Re Zhao Lin He/Chao Lian Ho:
He was credited with the development of the two man set of Tan Tui. That he added two sets to the ten line version is “news” to me. The 12 line version of Chin Woo is more aligned with other 12 line versions that I have seen that are of Shaolin origin.
With regard to Lost Track, I have heard the fourth road of Tan Tui associated with it.
mickey
Tan Tui / Tam Toy
Thru my lineage:
The translation reads “Springing or Snapping Legs”
There are 10, 12, 24, 108 road sets and 2 person sets.
Ginosifu
The translation varies by the dictionary you use. In the end they all mean the same.
I’ve heard of the 24/28 road set but a 108 Road?
What style/school does a 108 Road version?:eek:
Talk about a back and ball buster;)
That’s a lot of roads :eek:
Check this clip out. I like the flow.
That he added two sets to the ten line version is “news” to me.
I didn’t know how many roads it was, I just picked a number.
Check this clip out. I like the flow.
I guess it kind of flowed but there was no intention there at all, he looked powder puff. Where was the power, it looked like hand waving.
[QUOTE=SanHeChuan;843745]
I guess it kind of flowed but there was no intention there at all, he looked powder puff. Where was the power, it looked like hand waving.[/QUOTE]
LOL.
There wasn’t any hard power, sure …maybe soft?
Have you seen any other clips of Tan Tui with that intention you mention?
I wouldn’t say he was powder puff…I’ve seen worse that fits that description though.
[QUOTE=SPJ;843227]1. ling qing was in the middle of song, liao, and jin.
the city was taken over many times by all sides.
one of the infantry head hid in the long tan temple, his name was kun lung da shi.
both liao and jin are migrant people, they are good at shuai and na.
song army was weak, however, song civilians picked up MA learning and defending themself on the border towns.
tan tui was created by kun lung monk. liao and jin are good at upper body and arms for shuai and na. so tan tui was created to defeat the enemy at lower body or legs.
so tan tui has hand methods of luo han.
shao lin has tan tui as their leg methods.
canal systems were built in yuan, ling qing was in the center/middle of the canal system. there are many merchants and martial artists came and learned tan tui.
in ming and qing dynasty, ling qing continued to be the center of commerce along the canal system. tan tui was learned and incorporated into many northern style, such as hua quan.
–[/QUOTE]
I’m curious, what’s special about their leg methods?:)…like hung ga has low horse and tiger claw iron bridge for specialty…
[QUOTE=Chan Da-Wei;843277]Yeah, the 12 section Tam Tui routine is the first form taught in the Chin Woo school and is often taught (to beginners) in two groups of 6 movements. Jie Tan Tui (2 person spring kicking) is another of the Chin Woo fundamental routines.[/QUOTE]
I always read that tan tui is basic martial art, but this tells me it is really good methods if many styles adopt it…does anyone have video of a master level performance of the line roads?..like full power and execution?..something an army would do…
[QUOTE=RD’S Alias - 1A;843217]anyway i got up to about the 8th road and found it of little or no help to my sparring or self defence needs with the two man drills having little to do with fighting at all
Reply]
That is because you had a crappy teacher. Tan Tui is a Northern art, and fights totally different than Hun Gar does, so it’s a conflicting methodology. Sounds like your teacher was just using it as a leg/kicking drill, and was not really diving deep into it as a fighting system all it’s own. If you had a real Tan Tui teacher who could show you the usage I am sure you would see quite a bit of value in the art.[/QUOTE]
While I understand what you are trying to say, its not totally accurate. Tan Tui as an art suffers from what a lot of “northern” styles get, that longfistobia. If you do as you say, learn from a teacher that really can emply its technique, like many “longfist” it actually enjoys a rather short range power base. Similar to southern kungfu. One more reason why I think that a lot of the so called differences in northern and southern are more illusional. But that’s another topic.
For me, having in my kung fu practiced northern mantis and hung gar. Mantis is more than just the hooky fist and Hung gar more than just pouncing around like a big cat. Tan Tui, for me, is really the centre point in melding the two systems (in the techniques that I prefer) along with the overlap between various of the 12 mantis keys and the 12 bridges of hung gar. Personally when in actual use, Tan Tui to me is very similar to hung.
The major difference is in the employment of kicking. Being that the system is rather linear in technique (though it can be employed with twisting force), the kicking tends to come off with less angle. While from what I have thus studied of hung gar, the majority of leg technique is employed with the evasiveness from the crane aspect and thus more off center. But that could just be the way I have found them to issue out. I’m sure either could be taken in either direction.
The cool thing is that the way the stance plants makes a decent enough base (as long as you don’t overextend) for transitioning to either the leg cutting I learned in mantis or the striking from hung gar.
yes, I agree with yu and have to dissagree with RD. Having studied both Bok Siu Lum and Hung-Ga, I found Tan-Tuie to be an excellent foundational drill. It teaches stances, transitions, waist twisting,contains strikes such as jik kuen, ping choy,been choy, sow choy, jong and cup, segmented power generation, throws, locking,sweeps, oh yeah, and kicks. A good horse, bow,cat,drop step,and twisted horse, is emphasized as well as a rigid,militaristic drilling sequence-which is excellent for training a group of students. You can stop at any point, make corrections and continue as a unit.
There is a reason that China adapted it into the line drills for the military as well as line drills in standardized contemporary wu-shu,it is a great overall training tool.
of course, you realize however, that it is a form which, according to the consensus of the TCMA community is useless…
:rolleyes::p:D:p:D:p:D:p:D:D:
rochdale??
thats literally round the corner from me
i live in oldham
you must train with master ang dont you ??
tan tui
rochdale greater manchester area
are you with him???
I do a set called Ching Nin Kuen which roughly means youth fist. It has some tan tui elements in it. It also a two person set. It’s definitely Northern.
I find it to be a good bridge between the Hung and CLF I do. Footwork wise its more springy and the fists and hands are not much different to Hung/CLF.
[QUOTE=mickey;843295]SPJ,
Thank you for your translation.
Re Xian Ji: I have long believed that the Shaolin 12 section Tan Tui and the 6 section Duan Da comprised the original 18 Lohan Technique. I never had some sort of proof until now.
Thank you for sharing,
mickey[/QUOTE]
Now that’s very interesting.
How can you sort out the Luohan from the tan tui? Since it is just the hand movements.
Also, which Luohan Quan, Shaolin has many different Luohan Quan sets, depending on which time period it is.
Which 6 section Duan Da, Shaolin has a lot of them too.
I’d like to check this out.
[QUOTE=ngokfei;843340]Regarding the Chin Woo’s Tan Tui - what I’ve heard and read is that the Tan Tui of Huo Yun Jia was not preserved there.
Zhao Lin He who was also a Mizong Stylist is said to have taken his 10 road Tan Tui and restructured it thus ending up with a 12 road set.
Perhaps he just had also learned Shaolin’s 12 Road version and taught that instead?
Isn’t Kuoshu’s standard Tan Tui 10 Road Routine also from the Mizong Style?[/QUOTE]
Shaolin tan tui looks completely different and is based on different ideas, the only thing the same is that it is done in rows with a spring kick.
Wouldn’t Zhao know the same Mizong 10 Tan tui as Huo Yun Jia, since they were both from the same style?
Kuoshu’s standard 10 tan tui is from Moslem tan tui I thought, I don’t remember which family branch it is from. It came from Wang Zi Ping, didn’t it? Didn’t he teach there in the beginning?
[QUOTE=mickey;843397]Greetings,
Re Zhao Lin He/Chao Lian Ho:
He was credited with the development of the two man set of Tan Tui. That he added two sets to the ten line version is “news” to me. The 12 line version of Chin Woo is more aligned with other 12 line versions that I have seen that are of Shaolin origin.
With regard to Lost Track, I have heard the fourth road of Tan Tui associated with it.
mickey[/QUOTE]
But the 12 row Shaolin tai tui looks and acts nothing like the Chin Woo 12 tan tui.
Many schools call the Chin Woo 12 tan Tui the “SHAOLIN” 12 tan tui, but it is not THE Shaolin tan tui, they just call it that instead of Chin Woo. Many of Chin Qoo school’s sets are called Shaolin set, that’s the same as saying ‘long fist’.
Here’s the classic 10 Tan tui (Kuoshou school):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt83nvRwq-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJup-h-p_ck
Here’s the real Shaolin tan tui, same as it is done in the Shaolin Encyclopedia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zplTTFjh9KY
Here’s the Chin Woo 12 tan tui:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Iz0ZP8nlSI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGJoj1RRYd4
Does the Chin Woo 12 look much more related to this 10 tan tui or to the Shaolin Tan tui?
This set is called Shaolin 12 Tan tui, in honor of Shaolin, but it is clearly the Chin Woo set, and they will tell you that it is from there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-WdX8VebqU
This is a Mizong Tan tui set:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq3SLaAwUBA
Another version of Cha Quan 10 Tan Tui, different branch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbXyJOE2Dhc
Here’s the Yue Shi Ba Fan Shou, first section of 8 rows, for comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N63rIaKKXX8
Hey sal
From rescent conversations I’ve been told that Zhao simplified the 10 Road Tan Tui that he had (I assume the Mizone version) ending up with a 12 road set.
I’ve seen a few different versions of Mizong’s Tan Tui set, don’t know if Zhao and Huo came from the same lineage.
I assume the “Shaolin” monicker came from Mizong being associated with Shaolin and thus it stuck that way.
and yes I believe the Kuoshu’s Tan Tui did come from Wang Zi Ping.
Bandishaw
Recently have discovered that the Ching Nin Kuen is a Kuoshu set and is called the 24 beat set in Tien Shan Pai. I believe it is one of 3 basic sets created in Kuoshu, I know that the 2nd set is called 42 beat
[QUOTE=ngokfei;870628]
Bandishaw
Recently have discovered that the Ching Nin Kuen is a Kuoshu set and is called the 24 beat set in Tien Shan Pai. I believe it is one of 3 basic sets created in Kuoshu, I know that the 2nd set is called 42 beat[/QUOTE]
Hey Ngokfei,
Thanks for the info on that. Now I have a reference point.
Cheers.